The Steel Guitar Forum

Welocme Karl,
I have the baby brother to the Encore, the Stage One. It is a fine guitar and I really have no need to play anything else more expensive in the foreseeable future, if ever. I've played more expensive steels, and I sound the same on those My point being Doug builds a heck of a steel. The Encore is a pro model all the way.

Doug from Stage One/Encore also builds a low profile volume pedal. I prefer those potentiometer-based pedals, but that's such a personal choice, as is single coil v. humbucker. I play an old Fender cause I like the sound and I like a lot of chrome. Not that I can see it most of the time.

Your getting a Milkman? That and your picking hand will be the overriding definition of "your sound". That looks to be an awesome amp and would be my choice too, if I also didn't like shooting rifles so much!

For picks, I really like Pro-Piks and I use an old Dunlop 920 for the bar, and haven't used any other bar. It is just fine and if I ever lost it,or damaged it--easily replaced. Thumb picks- I like the Blue Hercos or Red Derlins.

I highly recommend getting the Winston-Keith book Pedal Steel Guitar as well as The Pedal Steel Guitar Anthology to get you started on learning material, as well as Ricky Davis' tab and sound file package. Ask Ricky about that. Those three things will get you going real good, and steel guitar music/tab/tips/instruction is one thing you will be chasing for a while. After a couple years at it, I'm able to pick stuff off the records I thought would be impossible when I first started.

Really, with the Encore steel guitar and Milkman amp, you will have the rig, boy.

Welcome to the obsession!

~Dan

As another newbie who dreamt for years about learning to play pedal steel and just bit the bullet about 6 months ago, I can offer a few tidbits about my experience thus far.

Generically speaking, yes, an amp can make a bigger impact to your sound than a guitar, but pedal steel is different in my opinion because the playability of the guitar is paramount, especially for us beginners. I started with an Emmons LeGrande II that sounded amazing, but I had an opportunity to buy a brand new Show Pro and couldn't be happier. It is a lot easier for me to play than the Emmons, so I sound better through it!

You can't go wrong with a Milkman. I bought the 40w Pedal Steel Mini model from another forumite and love it to pieces. Also great for 6-string. If you want to put more money towards your guitar, definitely check out the Milkman Half and Half hybrid tube/solid state model.

Finally, make sure you have a teacher lined up to get you going. I found a great one here in Denver who also has a website with phenomenal video lessons that I can practice at my leisure. You can check him out at www.radyguide.com

Good luck!

Best,
Chris

Thanks Chris and Daniel (and everyone else who gave advice),

The Milkman half and half is the amp I'm getting. My brother just emailed me last night saying they had one in stock and he was ordering it. As for the PSG, I confirmed my options with Doug yesterday and my brother is making the financial arrangements.

Last night I confirmed with my brother the final list of bar (Chromed Brass, SDF), Pedal (Hilton) Low Profile cables and picks (2 different sets of 4 finger and 8 different thumbs) and now the waiting begins.

I think I've found a lead on a local teacher "Ken Champion". He got some good mentions here and seems to be name-dropped fairly often in interviews by some Chicago-area players. I'm going to see if I can swing the $ to get some lessons. I'd prefer to take lessons long term, but even if I can't continue indefinitely I want to try and at least take a few months at the beginning. Coming from a classical background (upright bass was my start) I respect the value of getting a good foundation.

A very good starting kit.
Hell, it's a very good WORKING rig.
I'd recommend two resources you can start reading before the guitar arrives.
There's the Winston Keith book
Mark van Allen has a book that teaches music theory and applies it to the E9th pedal steel.
It's a really cool instrument in that you can play harmonized scales without moving the fretting/barring hand at all.
BUT it can flat turn your brain sideways.

Karl, if your Brother needs another Brother, I'm available!!!! Congratulations

Larry Baker wrote:Karl, if your Brother needs another Brother, I'm available!!!! Congratulations

I think the only "Brother's" he'll be adding anytime soon are of the Jesuit variety.

But if you're up for vows of Chastity, Poverty and Obedience...

I agree with Bill; the Stage or Encore is better than a student model, but not up to the level of a pro guitar. Think of it as an Epiphone or Squier; OK for the living room, but not for the stage. I think the bulk of your kablingy should be spent on the guitar; you can get a used Carter or Sho-Bud D-10 for under 2 large,and many more choices in a pro S-10, and I believe you will be happier playing a pro guitar through a lesser amp, like a Nashville 400 which can be had used for $300-$400. Playing a non pro guitar like Encore or Stage 1 through a Milkman or Quilter amp might sound OK, but I think you will be discouraged by the limitations of the guitar itself. In other words, there is a bigger difference in USABLE quality between an Encore or Stage 1 & a pro guitar, than there is in quality between a Milkman or Peavey. You see many pro steelers playing through Peaveys with pro guitars, than through Milkman with substandard axes. Even the Opry stage is filled with Peaveys.

Remember; it will be awhile before you gig out on steel; any amp will sound good at home volumes, but a non-pro guitar will be discouraging to learn on. I've been a pro gigging steeler for 30 years; play a Mullen & Emmons D-10, but still play through a Peavey or Twin Reverb. So do most of the steelers I know.

Upon what do you base your disparagement of the Encore? It has full pro model functionality and flexibility and sounds great.
Many well-known top-notch players choose them for their fly guitars
Have you played the Encore?
For a single ten (my least favorite configuration), it's a damn fine guitar.
And, if you've been following his several threads, you'd know his Encore has already been ordered.
It's one thing to give pre-ordering advice. There are no kind words for the kind of person who pours poison on the choice.

I think he'll be very happy with the choice.
It can last a lifetime, Karl.

Congratulations on your great new rig Karl ! You are blessed to have such a generous brother . Now the hard part(and best part ) starts..hours and hours of practicing!

Rich Upright wrote:I agree with Bill; the Stage or Encore is better than a student model, but not up to the level of a pro guitar.

Maybe somebody ought to tell this guy he's not using a pro guitar...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIwxb0Z8cpk

Thanks folks.

As for the "pro guitar" and "pro amp" thing I'm not too fussed. A few reasons for this.

1) I'm just happy to get the rig. These were the items my gearhead brother choose and as long as they're good quality I'm not going to haggle over the details. All the discussion we've had so far has been about options rather than the base items themselves.

2) Though I don't really know a thing about pedal steel, I'm skeptical about the need for pro-level gear for folks who aren't pros. I do hope to gig with this setup in a few years, but even when I was more actively gigging as a bassist (A few times a month) I don't think I was playing any instruments that were more than 7 bills, and some that were much cheaper.

3) As for investing alot in an amp, it's an approach that resonates with me. I've nearly always played amp/cab systems that were more expensive than the instrument plugged into them. Further, whereas it's likely that my first PSG will not be my last PSG, there's no reason the Milkman might not be my last amp.

4) Could be off on this, but the research I've been able to do indicates that an Encore is more like an MIM Fender than a Squire. A solid piece of gear. Most pro's play better, but lots of amateur players and some pros use them live. It's not like he's buying me a Carter Starter.

As I said before, I'm a newbie and who knows if how it will pan out, but I'm feeling pretty great about the gear I'm starting out with.

Rich Upright wrote:I agree with Bill; the Stage or Encore is better than a student model, but not up to the level of a pro guitar. Think of it as an Epiphone or Squier; OK for the living room, but not for the stage.

i play for a living.
i play an Encore.

j

I've been meaning to start a new topic but since about the end of February, I have been working for Doug helping build the Stage One and the Encore guitars. These guitars were designed by Bruce Zumsteg. Anything that Bruce has designed and built is nothing less than professional quality. The same as with Doug, no corners are cut and the materials used in these guitars are of great quality. I take as much time and care in the work I do as well to ensure the best quality for the money. I totally understand that one would think that economically priced would and could mean lower quality but I am here to tell you that in my honest opinion, these guitars are more than just a stay set up in your home guitar. We have a NUMEROUS amount of pro players that play these guitars anywhere and everywhere and are completely satisfied with these guitars. Tonewise, I would put these guitars up against anything on the market even above the price range of these guitars. However, I'm never opposed and wouldn't deter anyone that has the money to spend to go and buy a guitar with more bells and whistles but, you would definitely not go wrong buying an Encore and spending whatever you wanted for amplification and sound. Another nice thing about Stage Ones' and Encores' is they retain a great resale value.

I've been meaning to start a new topic but since about the end of February, I have been working for Doug helping build the Stage One and the Encore guitars. These guitars were designed by Bruce Zumsteg. Anything that Bruce has designed and built is nothing less than professional quality. The same as with Doug, no corners are cut and the materials used in these guitars are of great quality. I take as much time and care in the work I do as well to ensure the best quality for the money. I totally understand that one would think that economically priced would and could mean lower quality but I am here to tell you that in my honest opinion, these guitars are more than just a stay set up in your home guitar. We have a NUMEROUS amount of pro players that play these guitars anywhere and everywhere and are completely satisfied with these guitars. Tonewise, I would put these guitars up against anything on the market even above the price range of these guitars. However, I'm never opposed and wouldn't deter anyone that has the money to spend to go and buy a guitar with more bells and whistles but, you would definitely not go wrong buying an Encore and spending whatever you wanted for amplification and sound. Another nice thing about Stage Ones' and Encores' is they retain a great resale value.

Indeed, Dean. I've played one briefly, and from looking it over, the economy comes from steps that save labor without reducing quality. Here's two that I see.
1) you can see the screws that hold it together. In my Zum, the design hides almost every fastener, so the lines are cleaner. But that adds a LOT of time in assembly. It's not a big deal that you can see those screws in the endplate, and Sho-Bud did it too.
2) powder coated endplates. My Zum has hand-buffed shiny endplates. Hours on hours saved. And I LIKE that black.

Bruce and Doug designed a dang good guitar.

Thanks for the order Karl, your business is appreciated and well placed. Your brother is doing a very nice thing and you seem like the sort of brother who deserves and appreciates it. You have the equipment list taken care of and Russ has pointed you to some good personal instruction. Order some Jeff Newman DVDs and check out the material available from Doug Jernigan, Mike Sweeney and Joe Wright. I don't know that Doug J does Skype lessons but Joe and Mike do. There are several other very good teachers who have material available also.

Daniel Policarpo's last post linked to a video of the great Randy Beavers performing with Lee Ann Womack on the Marty Stuart Show - Randy's guitar is not exactly an Encore but is similar. It's a handmade Bruce Zumsteg special and is the only one of its kind. I just wanted to clear that up.

I'm not going to get into any kind of argument about whether the Encore is stage worthy or not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I would like to reiterate that as others here have pointed out in fact they are being used on stages.....big nice stages.....all over the world by some players who do know the difference and can have any guitar they want. A small listing would include the following performers -

Tommy Hannum, formerly with Ricky Van Shelton, uses his with Wynonna Judd and Big Noise

Johnny Cox with Heybale, Mel Tillis, the Baldknobbers in Branson and more. Johnny does not exclusively use his Encore, but it does see a good deal of service.

Danny Bentley from Nashville has had one on national tour most of this year with an upcoming artist and TV show talent winner, playing lots of nice gigs including the Crystal Palace

Matt Beck with Matchbox 20

Boo Miller, formerly with Claude Gray, JoDee Messina, Lisa Layne, and several Branson shows is currently playing his Encore a lot in the Dallas area with the Brazos Valley Boys and others

Gary Carter uses his with Connie Smith and Marty Stuart

Boo Bernstein travels around with some great contemporary latin groups ( I hope that is the proper description of that music - it is very good music whatever you want to call it). They play BIG jobs. Here are a couple of pictures he sent me








Don Reed, formerly of the Presley's Show in Branson, got one of the first Encores and uses it on tour with the Ozark Jubilee Show.

And lots of other guys maybe not quite as well known but certainly professional working musicians, are playing their Encore guitars everywhere from the Moose Lodge to good size local opry shows and churches to the Grand Ole Opry. Stage Ones are also being used world wide in professional situations, but this thread is about the Encore model.

I want to make it very clear that everyone who plays an Encore has paid for it, and they have all paid the same price. There are no promotional guitars, loaners, freebies or any other special arrangements. If they are playing an Encore it is because they felt it was an instrument that would do the job for which it was required.

Equipment doesn't have to be shiny to be professional quality. I may well introduce a shiny model though, and if I do it will also be priced very reasonably just like everything else I build and sell.

Thank you again Karl and Bryan.

That's all I've got to say about that.

I know this thread is about the Encore but I wanted to mention its cousin, The Stage One.Though I have a couple of fine heavyweight steels here in Beijing, this is the one I usually gig with, the Stage One.

Thanks for producing a quality steel at an extremely affordable price, Doug.

Karl Paulsen wrote:I'm a newbie and who knows if how it will pan out, but I'm feeling pretty great about the gear I'm starting out with.

That's what counts. About 3 years on and I'm steel feeling pretty good about mine. One thing I liked about buying a brand new quality pedal steel was that I spent my time playing it, rather than tinkering with the mechanics of something I didn't understand. In the time I've had her, the only upkeep I've had to do was change strings and spray a little bit of Teflon under a couple spots once or twice. That's it. And I play the snot out of it almost everyday.

Please excuse my misinformation, Doug. Thanks for clarifying the nature of Randy Beaver's steel! Pretty cool.

As a newbie, you may be unaware of the Forum's structure. For the benefit of others searching for similar information, we divide topics into various sections. This section (Steel Players) is for discussion of players and their music. The Pedal Steel section is for discussion of instruments. I would have moved this topic to Pedal Steel, but you also asked questions about amplifiers which should be asked in the Electronics section.

Mistakes like this are easily forgiven. In the future, though, please post your questions in the appropriate section. It would have helped people for years to come if a search for 'Encore' in the 'Pedal Steel' section had included your topic.

B0b, this IS in Pedal Steel. Always was.

Doug,
You're very welcome. I don't know about "deserve", but I definitely "appreciate" the incoming steel.
Thanks for the additional information from you and Dean,

bOB,
Sorry about the questionable forum placement. I wanted to tell the whole story in one post, but I realize that meant combining several items that are usually in separate posts/sections. I hope Steel was the best compromise.

As before, thanks to the other experiences and information from the rest of you!

Rich Upright wrote:I agree with Bill; the Stage or Encore is better than a student model, but not up to the level of a pro guitar. Think of it as an Epiphone or Squier; OK for the living room, but not for the stage.

really bad information and false statement!
the encore especially is totally stage worthy.

Lane Gray wrote:B0b, this IS in Pedal Steel. Always was.

I must be going blind. I saw it as Steel Players.

Never Mind.

i was/am gonna post this elsewhere, but, this whole record was done on an Encore, fwiw

https://kingcardinal.bandcamp.com/track/abraham

j