The Steel Guitar Forum

This get it right thing about playing the melody is for the birds. Just play the song and have fun with it. All I would hear from other musicians saying to me,you don't play it like what's on the record. REALLY! I was playing one of my own songs sitting in with this band years back and the band leader told me you're not playing it right. I was doing my own song at time,he said you're doing it wrong. Just play any song like it yours own and the melody will fine itself. Am Bitching again. The " Icon Super Star " God Father Of Southern California Country Music from The Academy Of Country Music's hard knocks on the neighborhood school of being a MUSICIAN that been repeated by others for years. Uncle Leo J Eiffert Jr. PS: COME AND GET YOUR LOVE!

I was stating a PERSONAL preference. You guys can play what you want. I've been playing steel for over 66 years. I'm also a vocalist and I feel it is always nice to have fellow band members play the same song I'm singing. As one of you mentioned, when you don't know the melody or are NOT CAPABLE of following it, you improvise. I DO know the difference between an instrumental and a solo break. Regarding the "boring" remark. There is nothing more boring than to listen to some jerk play the same six or seven licks he has learned over and over again, regardless of what the song melody is. I mentioned Stevie Wonder because he did the same thing that is happening on most recordings now. You can enhance a melody by using minors, augmented, or diminished runs in your chord transitions and still play the melody. That is what I try to do and wish more pickers would try.

There are differences in the way certain musicians hear and communicate their music. Some are attracted to the technical while others the emotional. To one who appreciates only the technical aspect, the melody can be boring. To one seeking the emotional content, too much information gets in the way of enjoying the piece(kind of like working the Sunday crossword). My favorite players are the ones who can make the melody interesting by taking me on nice side trips, but leaving me with the impression that they COULD play the melody note for note if they wanted to.

Jerry... You are so full of crap. You come on here and make a bullsH!t statement like this

ADMIT it guys, you are inserting your licks because you can't play the melody with feeling and expression.

, which directly attacks thousands of players. Just because you have been playing over 66 years doesn't automatically make you any good, or give you the right to pass judgement on what others play. I know some players that have played 30 years or more and sound worse than some that have only been playing a couple of years.

(Bolding done by me in the quote)

You know what else, new players, and some more experienced ones, come on here and ask what licks they should use for fills or ideas on what to play for the solo. The most common answer is to play the melody. One of the reasons players say that is because it is usually a lot easier to play the melody than it is to take a melody and enrich it with the player's own styling.

You're right, Richard. Jerry is not getting off the hook that easy.

He insults all of us when he says that players who improvise are "NOT CAPABLE" of playing the melody or following it... and then he says those who play Licks are "jerks". I can't believe this guy is a musician. He has such narrow view of what music is or should be.

I have been seriously resisting answering the O.P. out of an emotional response, as Doug B. and others have so handled it so well… but, in thinking of the newbies who might visit here seeking legitimate advice on how to frame their playing mentality I'll state my case.

There may be some disconnect on both sides of this "Play the melody, dammit" debate… as it's hard to discern whether the O.P. is talking about only recorded instrumental works, where most players state the melody, with some variation, before perhaps veering off into improvisation and returning (or not!) to the original melody, and playing solos within the structure of a vocalized arrangement. Which is what most of us are doing in a day-to-day bandstand or recording environment.

I invite anyone to visit the classic albums from Hughey, Emmons, Wallace, Franklin, and any great player for examples of the first approach.
Their solo albums often offer beautiful arrangements of the melody of classic tunes, with some deviation and embellishment, but definitely recognizable melody. (It may bear saying that some of these albums were angling toward radio airplay as instrumental replacements for vocal versions, as with Lloyd Green's 70's albums, but most were oriented toward listeners of the "please deliver me the melody" persuasion.)

I also suggest listening to ANY live recorded output from these same players for a serious lesson in improvisational attitude. Emmons Live at Scotty's Convention '77, the Time Jumpers with Hughey or Franklin, "Live at Bell Cove" with Emmons and Rugg, and on and on… this is how these guys play in the real world- once the melody is stated in an instrumental context, the game is on improvisationally. Most players of any stripe will easily admit their attention and admiration are drawn to the myriad possibilities of creative expression, drive, and tasteful exploration demonstrated by the masters extending and pursuing the possibilities over the chord changes… as has been stated previously in this thread these same masterful players have spent countless hours developing the language and technique to express themselves improvisationally over various changes, including intros, turnarounds, fills, and solos around a vocal melody.

Frankly, I have no idea what the proponents of "Melody Only" playing are drawing from, as recorded output all the way back to the beginnings of our instrument celebrates and elevates fine improvisational playing that shows little or any relation to the melody. Have you guys listened to any Western Swing? It does seem disingenuous at the least to suggest that "sticking to the melody" is required or even desired to be a productive "player".

If you make only instrumental albums, using recognizable, previously recorded songs, I can see the intent of at least starting with the melody. But if you want to compete in the world of bandstand hijinx, studio recording or jamming fun, I hope you bring some non-"melody" improvisational chops with you. Really. As others have noted, implying that "wild improvisation" means you can't carry the melody, in fact indicates that you may not be able to improvise with confidence and emotional/musical/intellectual dexterity. Again, view the 'Bell Cove" video and tell me how showing up there with just the melody would gain you a seat at the table. Come on.

As far as what my opinion is worth, Jerry, while my 35 years of professional playing may not match up to your 66 years, i invite you to peruse my discography: http://markvanallen.com/discography.html
While not complete, it may give you an idea of the amount and variation of recorded work I've participated in. Many of these album dates have resulted in repeated live work with the same artists. I can assure you, if I had ONLY PLAYED THE MELODY, I would have not been asked back for the further sessions you see here, or been recommended for further work by these artists and producers. In all honesty, I can recall playing the "melody" of the song 2 or three times, if that, during my recording career. The artists, producers, arrangers, and listeners want to hear an instrumental excursion that gives a break or frame to make the original vocal melody stand out once it re-appears. That's our job as sidemen.

Again, I'm not being combative here, I just think players visiting this thread deserve a real-world viewpoint on this ' melody" thing.

I am awaiting a link to your discography steering me to tracks where you stuck to the melody. Best wishes.

This is apparently a continuation of an old thread, in which I and many others contributed - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... c&start=50

I pretty much said everything I wanted to say there, except this. I think musicians should not disrespect what other musicians are honestly doing. We may or may not like or 'get' what they are doing, but the classic mother's adage, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." is still pretty good advice in most situations. I would really like to see us keep things just a hair more positive on this forum.

For example, I think it's fine to state what we like or don't like. But I don't think inserting the word 'jerk' into this discussion is a good idea. It's too easy, but sends us down a bad road.

Musicians do things for their own reasons. We all have different reasons for playing music - to a certain extent, musicians play for themselves as well as others. We may also have different types of audiences who expect certain things from us, and those may be very different than what other audiences expect.

I also think it's a real bad idea to go off on specific musicians in the music culture. I guess it is to be expected that not everybody likes the music of Stevie Wonder. But millions and millions of people all over the world love what he does. I'll tell you one thing - if anybody thinks what he does is simple, just try properly playing his tunes. They are interesting but hard to play well. He is a brilliant musician. Perhaps not to everyone's taste, but there is no denying what a fine musician he is.

I think the issue is the 'tone' of comments. If we say stuff respectfully, I think we'd be a helluvalot better off. My opinion.

Amen, Dave.

Keep on picking'
Glenn

I thought I would provoke a LOGICAL discussion but maybe that is not possible.I only used the word JERK after a couple of you guys called ME names. If that is offensive, I apologize. I feel that ANYTHING our heroes, like Emmons, Hughey, Myrick, Green do is memorable and appealing. Regarding "Look at us", if John had played the melody--with his touch and sound---it would have been just as memorable and appealing, and much more appropriate. IMHO. I hope this ends the discussion and the nasty remarks.

Darrell Birtcher---I plan on attending the SW Steel Guitar Jam at Phoenix this week. If you plan to attend, perhaps we can meet and chat.

I feel the LOVE of Musicians coming together again. Just respect each others words of helping each other by rebuilding the neighborhoods you live in and brotherhood it back to Honest true friendship for the young as well as the old. This works when everybody works together and not fight about who's the best. Uncle Leo J Eiffert Jr. PS: We are all a " Icon Super Star " to our neighborhood!

LJ Eiffert wrote: Just play the song and have fun with it.

I'm feelin it.

I'm leaning towards agreeing with Jerry Johnston,but I do think that you can improvise off a melody much better if you actually know it and can play it accurately when the guy who signs your paycheck asks it of you.I also think all that pentatonic box playing is more of a six-stringers' affliction than ours-except of course when they ram it up OUR ear canals.Then it's everyone's affliction.

In my early days (70's&80's) of touring with Nashville Artists, you better play the melody of the song or you'd be out of a job!!!

Hey! Hey, wait a minute Charlie McDonald, you left out " AND THE MELODY WILL FINE ITSELF ". I didn't say don't play the MELODY! You guys always make a left turn on a right note. What's wrong with the words? I know,they don't fit the MELODY. Uncle Leo J Eiffert Jr. PS: Remember real Traditional Country Music always starts out with the STEEL GUITAR _MELODY.

Steve... I don't know that I can believe that 100%. There have been several examples of songs already mentioned that solos, intros and endings weren't note for note copies of the songs melodies. Let's take 2 more. Piece Of My Heart by Faith Hill and Don't Rock the Jukebox by Alan Jackson Those solos don't sound like the melody. Do you honestly think Faith and Alan told their road players to play the melody or you'll be out of a job. Or do you think they said to play what was on the record, or be out of a job?