More on tone

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 20 May 2003 8:56 am

What's my percentage rate now bOb?

Jackie Anderson · Post by **Jackie Anderson** » 20 May 2003 9:41 am

Hey, Bobbe, instead of people just agreeing with you about "tone," you have some people agreeing with your "it's the changer" point that I know you have been trying to get across for a long time. I think you are still leading the pack. Of course, there is still the "it's the color" theory....

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 20 May 2003 11:04 am

About 25 years ago I made a statement in a steel guitar publication that a specific color steel guitar didn’t sound as good as another color. Unfortunately I didn’t elaborate on my comment at the time so as to make to make the reasons for my statement clear. And in hindsight I should have been more in depth on this forum concerning the analysis of my old MSA after I added a metal neck about two years ago.

First of all I do not think for an instant that I or anyone else has an ear that can detect a different consistent sound characteristic between a black or white guitar. However, I do believe when the eyes and ears are both in the equation, together they provide a different overall perception which has the unique ability to alter our opinion of the sound.

As an example, when I’m playing with my Midi unit and select any other instrument, my steel does not sound exactly like the other instrument I have selected. However, upon listening to the other instrument on a recording, few if any can tell the difference.

I experience a similar feeling concerning my Goodrich DoBro unit. When playing it I don’t have the feeling it sounds much like a DoBro, but when listening to a playback, and in the opinion of others, the resemblance is remarkable.

Concerning the metal neck which Mr.Smith referred too and I installed on my old MSA about two years ago. The definition and depth the metal neck provides is pleasing to my eyes, and therefore the final result is that the guitar actually sounds better to me. Admittedly in reality it probably sounds exactly the same, but when my eyes are added to the mix, it sure looks like it sounds better, so to me…….it does sound better.

When choosing a guitar, I believe both sight and sound should be considered. The overall design, color and especially the fret board (which I consider the control center) of the guitar is very important to the eyes, just as resonance, sustain, harmonics and intonation are important to the ears. Having one without the other is counter productive to creativity.

Relative to the requirements of the eyes, when designing the new Millennium we went to extensive lengths to incorporate great depth with detail by machining the frets into the neck and giving them a 3D appearance which makes for a very pleasing and definitive contrast.

There is a reason why the greatest musicians over the years have not chosen to play a wide variety of colors on instruments which are very visible when playing, such as pianos, and violins. It is my belief the eyes indeed play a very vital role in the overall playing process and perception of tone.

Jeff S….You posed a question about my previous assessment of the metal neck asking if it sounded reasonable. I see where you had a response to that question and they asked that you contact them privately. Should you decide to do so, I then invite you to extend the same courtesy to me and I will also provide my private comments to you which could be in stark contrast to what you might be told.

William Peters · Post by **William Peters** » 20 May 2003 11:48 am

Jack,

Hey, one of my friends plays lead guitar, and I think it sounds pretty good

(Isn't the english language great!)

But seriously, that pickup placement demo is pretty cool, and illustrates exactly what I was talking about.

As far a mass goes, I agree with you on that point also, but I was thinking only of the commonly used material, aluminum.

If I look at my changer fingers, they are only half the string spacing wide, with the remaining space filled in by a spacer. If I look at a Carter changer, the fingers are almost as wide as the string spacing. On the surface at least, it would seem that my fingers have less mass than the Carter fingers. Do I think that will affect the tonal differences between these two guitars? Sure do. But thats another story unconnected with pickup placement.

Bill

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 May 2003 12:38 pm

What really opened my eyes about the effect of mass was the time I tried to play a violin that an agent had loaned me. (It was a cheap violin, and I never did learn how to play it very well.) But the effect of the violin mute (that came along with the violin) simply astounded me!

Inherently, it was nothing more than a small weight that slipped over the bridge. But BOY, did it make a difference in the sound! When I tried to play this violin, it sounded loud and "scratchy". But when I slipped on the mute, the volume went down, and all of a sudden, it was round...full...and pleasing to my ears. Indeed, I now sounded as good as Tommy Jackson (but only on a couple of notes).

Well, I never did learn to play that violin...but I did learn the lesson of the effects of "bridge mass" rather well. Should you know someone who plays violin, just have them demonstrate the mute, and it's effect on the sound. Then you'll see what I'm talking about!

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 20 May 2003 1:02 pm

Hey bOb, what's my percentage now? It must be getting lower as everyone else posts.
I figure it's down to around 22% now, What do you figure?

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 20 May 2003 1:42 pm

I've heard it's figured by the number of words, times number of posts on the same subject over a period of six months. Guess it's time to again consult the calculator.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 20 May 2003 4:07 pm

Gee Maurice, people thought I just loved you for your personality and playing ability, now they know it's really for your calculatory abilitys! (Ha!Ha!)Thank you, I guess I have a pretty high percentage rate, I guess I'll go back to my own sand box as it was put to me by bOb a few months ago.

See Donny, just like I said, it's in the bridge area, you are a smart man like I've always said, this is where the steel either floats or sinks, not the pickup,necks,color,pickup placment,etc.
In a violin, it's the bridge,and soundpost drivin by the spruce top, transfering the vibration (which is really a rocking action)to the maple back (Which is NOT a rocking action)and the back vibration which causes the pressure differences inside the violin makes the sound come out the "F" holes as pressure waves.
I could explain how this principle also works on steel guitar but that would put me way over my "percentage" rate. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 20 May 2003 at 05:20 PM.]</p></FONT>

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 20 May 2003 5:37 pm

On mandolins it must be the tailpiece. Some of those are rather expensive.

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 20 May 2003 5:40 pm

One more thing I just wondered about. Why do they place the pickup on an angle with the lower bass strings end of the pickup farther away from the bridge on some guitars but not on steels?