The Steel Guitar Forum

Dick Sexton wrote:Not all guitar players, play loud. I've had the great fortune to play with a few that had nothing to prove to anyone. Knew every intro, break and fill, but always left room for the other instruments in the group they played in. These were a pleasure to work with, but they were not new to life and/or music. They were not professional musicians, even though they could well have been.

I've also worked with some of the worst and in my opinion, had no business going near a guitar, or any instrument for that matter.

Loud is not required, good is preferred.

This is true and many of my jobs in Florida I have had the pleasure of working with some very talented and tasteful guitar players. We should mention them because they make playing the steel a pleasure.

Roual Ranes wrote:Sing Folsom Prison Blues in Eb............they turn down on that one.

If they aren't tuned down a half step already....

I can add this.
A pedal steeler that plays too loud is just as bad.
I knew a very good steelman that used to drowned EVERYONE out.
They fired him and hired me

Biggest problem I find with lead guitarists (I'm a lead guitarist), is that my 6-string brothers think they need a amp that is 40watts or more, when in most club situations (esp with a soundman) they only need 15-20 watts.

Generally, I play thru 15 watt tube amps. If the cab is mic'd and kept in close proximity to me, I get plenty of volume for me and a respectful volume for the other players. I've been asked to turn UP on many occasions.

Don't forget the lead guitar player that tries to play twin parts to everything you play. I just left a band that the guitar player thought he had to twin Folsom Prison.

A lot of guitar players just don't get the concept of not playing all the time. They just have never developed as a musician the way other instrumentalists do.

The guitar is a much easier instrument to play at a basic level than a steel. Compared to most other instruments it's relatively easy to learn a few chords and a few licks. That's often enough to get you into a band. A lot of guitar slingers leave it at that and never develop their musicianship beyond that point. In their mind they have folk (who know nothing about music) telling them they're great so why should they put in the relentless hours of practice it takes a steel player to sound even half decent. By the time a fiddle player or a steel player is good enough to play with a band they've studied a lot of music and know how to play with other people. Of course there's exceptions........

It's a problem with ALL instruments, not just the big bad guitar player. Working with a steeler who plays pedal down thru a twin amp and never stops is not great fun either. Over use of effects on steel guitars renders some un needed racket also. I have worked with steelers who play WAY louder than the whole band put together, can't find the half way point, and NEVER stop unless they don't know the tune..........then it's "hep me hep hep me mr guitar man". I have also worked with steelers who go the other way. They are so unsure of themselves and are so self conscious of their playing that they play BELOW the mix. They will crank it on during the singing, but fail to deliver during the break. A lot of pickers never learned the "right way" to play with others, or have been the only lead instrument in bands for years. The way economics of music is these days, most don't work 5 peaces any more, and sadly, the steel guitar has become a 5th wheel. I have worked in bands with harmonica pickers who wont quit, as well as piannys and fiddles. It takes a good attention span and a level of professionalism to work a stage with two or three other lead instruments. Some folks just don't understand that the whole band and you too, will sound better if the instruments take turns.This greatly effects the dynamics of the tune. On the other hand, some picker's ego and pumped up self importance to the music world, will not allow them to learn or listen.........

The Band Leader Needs To Lay Down The Rules From The Git-Go & Let The Players Know When To Play & When To Lay Out. Follow The Rules or Your History.


Roger

Whose ego is out of control? The guitar player was apparently satisfying the band leader who controls band dynamics. Pedal steel was obviously a sideman in this band hired to play a part in an ensemble directed by someone else. Stamp your foot and quit if you don't like the band, but it isn't necessarily the guitar player.'s problem.

I had a guitar-centric band for years. My proudest moment was when the City of Kansas City gave me a ticket for noise pollution at Starlight Theater (outdoor 8000 seater.) Bass player and drummer just had to live with it if they wanted to get paid!

Regards

Bob (former guitar player)

Chris Walke wrote:

Generally, I play thru 15 watt tube amps. I've been asked to turn UP on many occasions.

that's cause you need a bigger amp.

There might be another problem (life can be so complicated) that is, when you think that you're a better guitar player than the guitar player.

Give the guitar player a chart!

I have read, apocryphal-like, that one of the reasons the bebop players in the early formative period used some frankly bizarre "tricks" like back-cycling THREE chord degrees through the step of fifths etc, was just to weed out the honkers. There are certain rhythms like a fast light bossa nova that just can't be blasted through, but it still always comes down to the drummer. If he tries to "keep up" with the dickweed gutterist, all is lost. If the WHOLE band leaves dickweed hanging, isolated out in Hendrixian assholeland all by himself, staring at him, song after song, he may learn something. Or at least go away....

The reason there are no beboppers outside of old folks homes and none of them could get a job anyway is that people prefer to listen to electric guitars! You can play B.S. harmony games to embarrass your sidemen if you wish. I know jazz ego maniacs who regularly do that to players in the charmingly competitive KCMO scene. Frankly yours is the attitude I'd weed out.

And please don't switch horses and start tell me about playing classic country and noisy guitar players. From what I see on TV loud 70's style electric guitar has won country away...

This conversation is missing the point of both music and band management....

chris ivey wrote:

Chris Walke wrote:

Generally, I play thru 15 watt tube amps. I've been asked to turn UP on many occasions.

that's cause you need a bigger amp.

Nope, plenty of room to turn up. I tend to set the master around 3, and when asked to turn up, somewhere between 4-5 is more than sufficient.

I agree that 12-15W is the sweet spot for most stages with PA support and a drummer with a softer touch. That's paired with a 98 dB single 12" speaker.

The solution to volume wars with guitar players is to get them unhooked from the big iron amp era, and into the new world of "right sized" boutique amps.

I have following Country Music for 70 years and the Damn lead guitar players think they are the only one's playing and they crank them up and you can not hear the Steel guitar witch is a much better sounding than all the lead Guitars built. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Sam White

You can always tell a six-stringer who thinks his amp is a PA main.You just can't tell him much.

Larry - You also need to pray to the water buffalo for strength. Thats it... thats better.
Now go show 'em how it's done!

John Booth wrote:I can add this.
A pedal steeler that plays too loud is just as bad.

At least the vast majority of loud pedal players don't have the thing so distorted it sounds like pure $#!&, the way the lead guys do. Lead players nowadays seemingly can't play without distortion.

What's up with that, anyway?

I agree, the distortion is getting outa hand.
Lead players (and I'm one myself)
are going back to 15-20 watt amps just so they can push them too hard and get that distortion.
I personally never saw the purpose of distortion in a George Jones song, but I have heard it way
too many times over the years.

I have also left several bands for the excessive volume level as well. Some folks just don't get it, and likely never will. Good luck!

Robert

I have also left several bands for the excess volume level as well. Some folks just don't get it, and likely never will. Good luck!

Robert

I'll vouch for JB....he was more than courteous to me ! Tasty leads too 👍

I've had the opportunity to play with 2 of the finest lead guitarist in western N.C. These 2 are prime examples of what musicians should be. The REAL Musicians know when to play, & when not to play.
I've also had the misfortune to play(or try to play) with probably 25 or 30 of the worst. Most of these were bad enough to be in a class all by themselves!!
During my last 10 or 12 years, I didn't hang around long when the lead man plays full-volume over the singer & me. That's the one most dis-respectful thing they could possibly do. Do they ever listen how the pros conduct themselves ??? J.C Norris