The Steel Guitar Forum

Ian Rae wrote: I wonder though, if the emergence of the uni is more technology-led than being the solution to a musical problem. The arrival of pedals got us from 3 or 4 necks down to two using pull-release changers, and once changers became smart enough to make multiple raises and lowers, we could save yet more weight and expense by reducing to a single neck. But although the two tunings overlap in ways that are explained very well by the contributors above, you can't have every pedal next to every other, so they are ever likely to be segregated in some traditional way. Or so it seems to me...

I would say the Mechanical solution is a pretty big part of the reason the S12U exists.
I sometimes have an oppurtunity to show D10 owners/players how you can duplicate alot of the chords that exist on the C6th, on the E9th neck, and visa-versa. It's also really just One Big Tuning, but has somehow become thought of as two completely separate tunings that are so different that many find one playable and the other daunting... an armrest, as they say.
I would say the E9th S10 could easily be thought of as One Big Tuning, although the S12uni better fits the bill by duplicating all of the pedal/lever functions of a D10 on one 12 string neck.

Been following this post. I bought a 12 UNI GFI last summer and now into getting it set up and tuned. I have the Jeff Newman universal course. All it deals much with is the tuning. At my age I think this will keep me in the student phase till I go for a nap.

I am new to the universal as well. Have a GFI universal. I played E9 for a short time and love it, but NEED the lower strings and C6 melodicity (I think I just made that word up). Thats why I had to get the 12 string.
I have taken some lessons with Joe Wright on skype since he plays 12 string and can show you what you need to know. even though my tuning is different than his, he can instantly adapt to your tuning and tell you the moves you need to make on your specific guitar.
First thing I noticed was to get the nice C6 stuff with the GFI's copedent, I had to keep the LKR engaged (lower E to Db)while going for pedals 4,5,6 and 7. I did not like that. Awkward. Would be much easier to use the right leg to lower leaving more room for my left leg.. So I took the plunge and , with some help from GFI correspondence, switched my LeftKneeRight with my RightKneeRight. 15 bucks for the new rod kit. It was not difficult, at least on this guitar. So I changed my copedent slightly to make it easier for me.
Now I had the "bug" and asked Joe if he had a suggestion for another possible change. he said, "if you want, you can add a rod to pedal C to raise your string 11 from E to F# (similar to my 4th string E.
And being on pedal C, it would not really be involved with the "C6" part of the neck (pedals 4,5,6 and 7). But may prove useful when playing the "E9" part of the neck with pedals A,B,C. So now my copedent changed again and now I am happier playing. Also after physically being under the hood changing the rods ... I will NEVER EVER forget what my RKR and LKR pulls do. Where I am going with this is that I am starting to understand why different players have different copedents - especially for the universal. It is very personal.

Unfortunately I am also starting to understand why it is very difficult to get specific tab for instruction for your own copedent setup. It is just so varied between the players.

So how I learn is, as another person mentioned, to learn bits and pieces and start putting together stuff and playing with a lot of repetition for finger and foot muscle memory.

When i want to learn something specific like a song or chord progressions or riffs within a certain genre, be it blues, country, swing etc, I would email Joe and set up an appointment time on skype and let him know particularly what I want to learn. After the skype lesson, he sends me a video copy of the lesson. I play it over a few times and make my own notes from the video. I refer to my notes like a bible.

I know there are a few pros out there doing the skpye thing and I really think it is worth every penny. Find someone you like who can relate to you.

Another suggestion would be to find players who have the same or similar copedent as you and share each other's musical ideas. By the way, skype is a good way to do this as well. Grab a beer (or hot tea or coffee)and share some knowledge without leaving your house! (keep yor fingers crossed that the internet is working - that reminds me- I got to call my provider.. it is getting worse every day!)

K

I’m not sure what a beginner’s tutor book for the uni would have in it that isn’t already covered in existing work for the E9 and C6. I had the foresight to tune the back neck on my D10 to B6 right from the start, in case I ever got my hands on a uni. So when I did I had no trouble finding my bearings – I imagine this might have been difficult if I’d stuck with C.

So I think I can safely suggest that if you are a beginner, or a proficient E9 player who plans to promote the rear neck from armrest to musical instrument, tune it to B. You will soon get used to playing instructional tab a fret higher than it says, and when you come to the uni you’ll be able to dive straight in.

I can’t yet say whether “one big tuning” is ideal or reality, but I’m starting to find bits of one tuning spilling over into the other.

I get a lot of classic E9th and C6th sounds from my "one little tuning" - an 8 string D6th. I won't call it a "universal", but it does cover about 75% of what I can play on my D-10. Click the link in my signature below for details.

Ingenious. A lot of music per pound weight. As an amateur historian I wonder whether the 8-stringer would still be with us if the all-pull mechanism had come along sooner, instead of dying out while dinosaurs and pull-release changers still roamed the earth.

Many uni players are simply using the flexibility of the universal tuning to help their back. (Playing the tuning in either the E9 or C6 (B6) "mode" depending on the type of song they are playing, such as a country ballad done in E9 or a western swing number or jazz rendition in the 6th tuning). They are, in fact, still playing a D10 or D12 but only having to carry half the weight. Many uni's have a E lower lock that reinforces this multiple tunings on a single neck thinking. Also, the LKR levers are often so configured that they get in the way if you want to use whatever changes you have on those levers and still jump back and forth using pockets and voicings of both tunings intermixed within the same few bars, not just playing one lead run in E9th mode and the next in the 6th mode. To really play the universl tuning as "one big tuning" requires knowing both the E9 and C6 changes pretty well and having your knee levers set up to be able to seamlessly move between positions of both tunings. I'm sure not there yet, but I'm working on it.

I've played Uni since 1982 and now, especially on original material, I'll play in both 6th and 9th modes within the same song and even within the same break. I think that's one example of one big tuning.
2nd example - I find it difficult (not impossible) to get a full major 9th on an E9 neck, likewise I find it difficult to get our favorite E9 "rock onto pedal 1 with pedal two down" style lick on a C6 neck. It doesn't matter, I've got em both on my Uni.
Lane elluded to something that's relevant. I found the Uni especially great for western swing whereby the steel and a couple of other instruments would be playing a line either harmonized or in unison, usually in a major scale, but then the guys would jam the hell out of it in a jazzier or bluesier style when they soloed. I found it easiest to use the 9 mode when playing the melodies and the 6 mode when soloing.
I'll work on posting a link to a couple of instrumentals that illustrate the 9/6 transition. I'll tab it out if there's enough interest.

Jim Pitman wrote:I find it difficult (not impossible) to get a full major 9th on an E9 neck...

The major 9th is pedals down with the root on the D string. Very easy on E9 neck. GMaj9 at 5th fret, for example. It's the most common Maj7 or Maj9 position. Most U-12 players don't see it because they don't have a D string.

Here's a song that uses that position a lot:
http://b0blee.bandcamp.com/track/alvas- ... tal-melody

Strings 8-6-5-2-1?

I was a Harlin Bros kid back in the 50s and 60s. I knew Jay Harlin and his brothers. In the 60s, I was a teen and Hawaiian Steel just wasn't cool and I picked up acoustic guitar in the mid 70s. That was until just a few years ago when I found I could actually play E9th. It makes total sense and I have all these instinctive blocks, picking skills and intuitive use of pedals from my childhood training. I fell in love with the instrument.

What I'm missing is a reference to the chord changes and the actual functions of each pedal and knee. It would be nice to have a charting of all the pedals in an open copedant listing. Not just of a single copedant but as a general reference through the Genre. Not only of the tuning but with chords and combinations.

1. as a reference to my own PSG and

2. as a reference to the broad range of pedals and knees used in the B6/C6 genre as a guide for defining your own setups. E9 is pretty well defined. The B6/C6 seems to be broader and more personalized.

Instrument specific copedants are nice but they fail at defining the chord and function in use.

I picked the U-12 because, first, it's lighter than a D-10. Also due to the limitations of the E-9 standard. The lack of 11th and 13th chords with limits on dim and aug I viewed as a shortcoming. I want to do more with the PSG than just country and swing. I see other horizons where knowledge and experimentation are at the point. What I need is the knowledge of all these U-12 players.

John Prather wrote:I picked the U-12 because, first, it's lighter than a D-10. Also due to the limitations of the E-9 standard. The lack of 11th and 13th chords with limits on dim and aug I viewed as a shortcoming.

I don't use 11th chords much, but I never had any problem finding 13ths, dim and aug chords on the E9th. The A pedal gives you a 13th, the F lever makes a diminished, and A+B+F is an augmented. There are other positions, too.

I know that these chords are easier and more obvious in a 6th based copedent, but the 10-string E9th's limitation is range, not musical capabilities. All of the chords are there. It just lacks low notes.

An interesting Universal tuning that incorporates a lot of this 6/9 stuff is the Zane Beck tuning where you have a 6 on the 4th String, so with a vertical you have a flat 7 and a knee a 7th in root mode. Zane King plays that tuning and I like it, seems to make sense to me, but we are all different.

Thank you b0b. I was referring to the 11th interval not the chord, my bad. Thanks for the info.

Niels Andrews: Zane King makes a lot of sense, yes. The guy I bought the instrument from is considering changing over to Zane King. Are you using the Zane King tuning currently?

Replacing the B6 with a straight E6/9 tuning seems to be a great idea. Makes it so you're not always trying to mentally separate the Universal Concept into two instruments. My issue at this point is the extreme modification in the setup. Not quite ready to do that yet. Since Zane also has a U-12 lesson program.. It might be the way to go since I'm just beginning the Uni and I'm not confused by previous tunings and concepts except the E9.

Yes, my tuning is pretty close. I have a 6/7. On the extra knee I lower the G# a half tone to give me a minor on the root chord and in combination with the vertical, a minor 7th.
I started on a Uni with Reece's tuning which I think was same as Jeff Newman's. I never really liked the top three strings on an E9 so for my money having three ascending notes seemed more logical.
So with the Zane tuning you have a 6th on the 4th string then your root moves to the 3rd string and then chromatically ascending from there (2nd, 3rd.) So basically in open position you have six grips for a major chord. Should be enough for about anybody.
For some the tuning might be odd, but I enjoy it and at this point that is all that matters. I really see it as having everything in one 12 string neck.
Anybody that is interested Zane made a series of Video's that explain the tuning in relation to Day and Emmons which are on You Tube.
As far as the B6 side for me it is where the song best fits the guitar, there are nine frets separation for the C chord, so some songs fit better than others what one consider as seperate tunings. I have to add a disclaimer here in that I have only been playing going on four years and I don't claim any expertise, I just know what I like.