The Steel Guitar Forum

I like both,have both,but Aluminum necks is my favorite way to go.

Hey, Dan Dowd, do you remember the scale length on those Fender Stringmasters?

Thanks to all off you for this great disscussion. For a while I had a Sho Bud Professional and then got a brand new MSA ClasSic. Well that was almost 20 ears ago. I still have my MSA. And unlike some of you .I can't afford to put out $3000 or $4000 for a new steel. I've done my own maintenance and modifications for years. I feel that I KNOW my steel very well. I've been considering reconditioning it and was considering changing my wooden neck for an aluminum neck..because I noticed that most of the NEW steels being made do Have aluminum necks and have a Brighter or "biteier" sound. I can get that somewhat with the amp settings..but it still isn't RIGHT. Todays music have a more "attack" sound then the older music did.. So to keep up with the times it does seem to me that a change is in order.
One other thing..What can I do with the back legs the threads seam to worn..Should I try to get new ones or is there some sort of threading insert or material to use? Can anybody help?
Bob Hayes A poor old steel picker

Hey Bill, I think the 3 leg 3 neck Fender was 22 or 23. The Stringmaster I think was 25. However I have been not always right but never wrong. Ha

Bob, first make sure it's the leg sockets in the guitar that are worn and not the steel plugs in the legs that are worn.

If it is the leg sockets and there is enough aluminum surounding the hole, you could have a machine shop drill out the holes enough to insert helicoils. A helicoil looks like a coiled steel spring where the internal windings are the thread size you want, which is which for the leg holes is a 1/2-13 thread if memory serves. Properly done, the fix would only be visible when the guitar is upside down in the case.

I guess if you want to split hairs on this subject, you could take it down even further. What effect does the fret marker have, when attached to the neck? If it's metal, plastic, wood, paper,,,,is it glued, screwed or silk screened,,,,how thick is it,,,,and on and on and on? Does it make a difference if you use stainless screws, aluminum, plated, brass or whatever? Does it make a difference if you use wood glue, contact cement or some other adhesive? How about the size of the fasteners, both length and width?
What about the type and catagory of metals, 6061 or 7075 (typical),,,,stainless, brass, bronze?----type of strings, scale length, type and brand/kind of pick-up, rubber or plastic tips on the leg ends, tone bar, picks, right and left hand technic and probably a hundred other things to consider.
The obvious answer to all of these questions is a bottom line, yes. How much of a yes is yet a larger discussion, which is what we have in this thread.
I tend to think the most important factor is the player. However,,,,the guitar, with all of the variables discussed here and other places and times, does have an impact.
Final answer-----find one you like, play it the best you can and enjoy the discussions and debates of the autopsy.
BB

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If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Amen to that, Mr. Bowman.
Best regards- Sage

I notice on my Sho-Bud that when I play the strings, the return springs "under the hood" are also vibrating. I can imagin that this can change the sound. Also the wood and aluminium necks vibrate. Probably a lot of factors do have an influance on the sound. (Hope I spelled that one right)

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom

Jim,
Thanx for the advise.My mind is getting to the point that I can't think logical at times.I'll check around a machine shop somewhere in my area for the fix. Thannks again,Great help.
Bob

Thanks for the discussion, one and all. I wasn't really expecting a silver bullet to guarantee results. I'm inclined to go with the wooden necks,though, since I prefer the look, the ease of machining....and I've got just about enough aluminum chips in my basement as it is!
Ricky- I enjoyed your comment about the notion that an aluminum neck would likely improve the look of a formica clad cabinet.BTW- Formica is a brand name of plastic laminate , to be industrially correct. Mica, on the other hand is a flaky mineral. The description "laminate" will cover the necessary ground. Thanks- Steve

Let us read Ricky's explanation again. it makes a lot of sense. If the changer fingers touch the wood body, there is bound to be an improvement in the sound. Proof?

Not scientific, but I played an older Carter , then played a new Carter with the BCT technology and Wow! A much greater sound, in my opinion, and in many others too.

I have noticed as mentioned here , that for mellow, Wood Neck,,, for bright Aluminum Neck. All things being equal.Good Post...Happy Holiday Season...al

A wood neck does or does not not sound as bright as a metal one?

<u>On the same guitar</i>, an aluminum neck will sound brighter than a wooden neck.

I've never heard anyone argue successfully to the contrary.

My 2 cents worth is as follows. The various materials a guitar is made of, wood aluminum, whatever, have different frequencies at which they resonate and will affect the tone of the guitar in some way. What a person prefers and what sounds best in your hands is up to the individual. However I had a Sho Bud Pro3 with aluminum necks for many years, it was the first double neck I owned. I liked the sound but it was extremely sensitive to temperature changes. Staying in tune when gigging outdoors was always a struggle and playing in the sun was really tough. Wood necks i.e. my Dekley do not seem to have much trouble with this. So wood might be a more stable choice. Anyone else had this experience?

My 2 cents worth is as follows. The various materials a guitar is made of, wood aluminum, whatever, have different frequencies at which they resonate and will affect the tone of the guitar in some way. What a person prefers and what sounds best in your hands is up to the individual. However I had a Sho Bud Pro3 with aluminum necks for many years, it was the first double neck I owned. I liked the sound but it was extremely sensitive to temperature changes. Staying in tune when gigging outdoors was always a struggle and playing in the sun was really tough. Wood necks i.e. my Dekley do not seem to have much trouble with this. So wood might be a more stable choice. Anyone else had this experience?

Now just curious as to how the neck on my dbl 12 SHO-BUD is attached to the body. Is therae screws under the fret board or is the neck glued to the body? And would have to go with the statement that IF the neck has some bearing on the tone seems to me fret board material would also have some bearin with the tone also? Where is Mr. Seymore when you need him? He knows if anybody does. I'll bet he's lurkin and waitin till we get finished with our evaluation before he dumps a ton of info on us. Bobbe, come out come out where ever you are.

The screws are under the fretboard.

Everything on and attached to the guitar contributes to the overall tone, some things more than others.

Seeing that I know ,as Elaine would say "Absolutly Nothin" about Steel Guitar construction and how to calcualte the physics of wood mass in relationship to overall frequency vibrations, I guess I will weigh in as well.

If you've got a good lookin' piece of wood, use it ! Let the natural beauty of the wood grain with a accenting inlay be the determining factor.

I've owned and played a D10 SB Pro III
( al.necks) , I liked it fine, I have a mica Carter ( al. necks ) , I like it fine and I have an old D10 SB Professional, which is one of the nicest pieces of grained wood I have seen, and I like it real fine. They all have different tones from my ears but for me it would go back to the natural beauty of the guitar, I say you can't beat the appearance of a great lookin' piece of wood.

tp

I talked to Jr. Knight one time about this. At the time he said he thought he could tell a difference. I have had both kinds of steels and I prefer a mica finish and aluminum necks. I believe I can tell a difference. I saw a demonstration in St. Louis where 4 pros played beginner guitars. A lot of it is in the hands of the individual who is playing. I love this website........Paul

The only way to test this neck question is to take turns putting both kinds of neck on the same guitar, changing nothing else. I have read two builders comment on doing just that. Gene Fields of GFI says that the body on his guitars resonates with the strings somewhat. A wooden neck deadens that a little, whereas an aluminum neck does not. Therefore, he got a more lively sound on his pedal steels with an aluminum neck.

On the other hand, Bobbe Seymour said that when they were developing the Sho-Bud Super Pro, they noticed it sounded different than the old Pro III and thought it might be the aluminum neck. But when they tried both types of neck on the Super Pro, it made no difference. The sound all came from the changer and body, not the necks.

So there you have it. On some guitars the neck makes a difference, on others it doesn't. Anyone who wants to know about their own guitar will have to try different necks on it. Comparing completely different guitars with different necks is a confounded comparison. There are too many other things involved that have as much or more affect on the sound, mainly the changer, the body, the nut, the pickup.

Now if that ain't clear as mud, I don't know what is.

Dan Dowd took the words out of my mouth,,fortunatly for all of you he didnt make a long story of his comments The Fender Custom was a 22/1/2 length scale and the stringmasters came in three scale lengths
22/1/2 24/1/2 and early on 26" scale which was discontinued due to string breakage on
the higher pitched strings.

I have both Custom and Stringmasters here,I have an Emmons (69) will alum necks,,the Fenders by far cut the Emmons for the tone I prefer,,,they have both the bottom end and high end,,,Leo Fender always told me that tone could not be achieved with a pedal guitar,,that was before the 1000 guitar was
introduced.

I had a Bigsby when I turned coat and after receiving the Bigsby which was a beauty
I was sorley disappointed in its overall tone
it had alum necks,,,Paul Bigsby discouraged me from going the wood neck route. His comments were,,,the aluminum necks had a "bell like tone" whereas the wood necks had a dull sound,,.

That Bigsby lacked the punch I liked,,it had everything else going for it,,except the tone
I was a "Customed" to It was later that I discovered that what made the Bigsby sound brighter and tighter was the Standel amp.
They went well together,,My Bigsby when cranked up on treble would "feed back" with my Fender Twin whereas the Fender guitar would not. Here come those Bigsby guys after me.

Dan Dowd said it all in a few words and it takes me all day to clarify his comments.

Mr, Stafford..those were the length's of the
guitars you questioned.

Again take into consideration that Fender guitars not only had the pickups to give extreme high's often disliked by many and the
fact that they were solid bodies made a great
deal of difference. All in all,,I could live
with both aluminum necks or wood,,but since
my head is made of wood,,I prefer that. Leo
Fender liked the high road,,,some like the low road,,,I'll take the middle of the road.

But I wont be in Scotland afore ya. Are your eyes sore? thats normal when anyone reads my
posts,,,,it will clear up in a minute or two.

edited for,,,I never saw a drunk with an aluminum leg ,,have you??? I prefer wood, & I dont drink.edited for mis-spelling,,I mean turn coat,,like as in "traitor" to my own
company which I was not proud to do,,but I
just had to have a Bigsby. Great guitar and
wished I had it back again...<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 06 October 2002 at 02:45 PM.]</p></FONT>

I used to own a '57 strat with gold plating.

This guitar had an aluminum pickguard that was anodized gold. It was much brighter with this pickguard. I know because I replaced it with a plastic one and it sounded duller. I put the aluminum one back on and it regained the original highs.

Maybe (for the steel guitar) it has something to do with the material the pickup is mounted in.

Also, aluminum is 3 times heavier and 3 times stronger than wood. However on a steel neck it is usually "lightened" with "pockets" in the bottom of the neck. Maybe these "pockets" resonate the sound to the wooden body to make it brighter.

<SMALL>Here come those Bigsby guys after me.</SMALL>

Oh Jody, shame on you, bad bad bad.

Chas
ONLY KIDDING you ought to know me by this time,,,,,Im as big a fan of PA than anyone.

I deleted the post that made reference to what I felt was a needle by Chas. I was wrong
and I want to apologize to Chas. Those of you
who read my comments may understand,,but when
Im wrong, Im wrong, and I admit it.

I have seen things posted on the Forum where
members get upset and as a result,,feelings
are hurt and so on. I felt bad after reading
Chas reply to my post,,and Its forgotton as
far as Im concerened. Chas if I caused you any discomfort..Im sorry,,,I still like wood
necks better than aluminum peace my friend

Let There Be Peace In The Valley.

Jody...The Fender guy. I feel better now.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 08 October 2002 at 07:42 PM.]</p></FONT>