The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 12:04 pm**

Daniel McKee wrote:One problem is that most people dont know what it is.When I started playing like nobody really knew what it was at all.Ive heard mine be compared to keyboards and everything else.

This has been my experience too. There are precious few pedal steels seen in the far west suburbs of Chicago. So when folks ask me about it when my band is on break, I invite them to step over and have a look (if they are interested enough).

I think the learning curve is also a big issue.

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 12:51 pm**

It's not in the public's eye that much and humans tend to gravitate to the Majority, i mean look at rock music, it's the biggest seller and has the least soul!

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 1:30 am**

Pedal steel by nature doesn't have a lot going for it. It's heavy (at least my MSA is), difficult to set up/tune, expensive, hard to find, doesn't usually look as cool to play as guitar or drums, and is very difficult to play.

I'd say the main reason anyone plays the thing is because they fall in love with the sound, which is the only thing that matters anyway. That's why I finally hunted one down. I'm 25, been playing for 3 months and I can't get enough of it.

(First post!)

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 5:53 am**

Same here, I'm 24 and I love the thing. Fascinated with the sound since I was a little kid. Been playing fiddle my whole life, saved up a little bread, bought a steel, and now I'm starting to get calls to double on steel and fiddle, it's great! Lot more of a hassle to carry around and set up though...

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 8:46 am**

To the best of my knowledge, the Stage One has not gone up in price. Doug's intention was to make a high quality, very reasonably priced steel. He is also making the Encore which is more expensive as the copedant can be changed. Unless he is reconsidering, I'm under the impression he will continue making the Stage One. Presently it costs $1049 plus shipping. Check the site:

http://stageonesteelguitars.com/
This is from Doug's site:

"ZumSteel Encore - for even more professional features starting at $1499
The Encore has an all pull changer system with triple raise and triple lower capability. Split tuning on strings 5, 6, & 10 is included on our standard Emmons setup. The setup of the guitar can be customized to your specifications, in most instances. The knee levers feature tilt adjustment for a good fit. Most popular pickups can be used, some at extra cost. Our standard pickup is your choice of a TrueTone single coil pickup or our custom made dual coil humbucking pickup. Either one of these is a very good choice for powerful clear sound. The Encore was designed by Bruce Zumsteg, with the goal of making it play and sound much like the famous ZumSteel professional guitars. He succeeded very well, as usual."

I too am of the opinion that if the younger generation can afford IPhones, iPads, etc, they can pay for Stage Ones without too much difficulty. Some of the other reasons given seem more plausible to me. steve t

Also, with regard to rock music, I heard these same complaints in the 1960s and1970s but I felt otherwise:
"I mean look at rock music, it's the biggest seller and has the least soul!"

_________________

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 1:35 pm**

I was 26, and had always liked the sound: seeing Buck Reid with Lyle Lovett sent me shopping the next day. I'm 29 now, and just starting to figure out how little I actually know.

Depending on your geographical location, there may not be much demand for the music/places to play a pedal steel.

And there's one hell of a learning curve, in addition to the price of admission, as others have said before.

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 2:29 pm**

What has the steel guitar fraternity actually done to promote this fabulous instrument?

We've had our own conventions......serving our OWN needs.

We've followed our favorite instrumentalist thro' recording sessions with one artist or another.

But what has this done to promote the instrument among non-players?

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 3:20 pm**

Good topic and I'd like to weigh in if I may.

Steel guitar is usually played "clean" and is associated with country, jazz, Hawaiian and also pop standards that have strong melodies. I observe that today's youth almost never play without distortion and have actually told a guitar teacher friend of mine (an excellent jazz guitarist) that playing "clean" is "old fashioned."

Even in local music shops I see young players check out nice hollowbody jazz guitars (traditionally appreciated for their beautiful woody warm sound) with the amp's distortion on 10 and NEVER test the guitar with just the clean sound. These young players just seem to play endless "riffs" and never play actual melodies. Their music is angry, loud and often devoid of any trace of romance.

I've been playing since I was 15....I am now 67, so the cultural changes are apparent to me. Steel guitar is not generally suitable for "angry" music. Along with the other valid reasons given in this thread there have been monumental cultural changes that have affected music and musicians.

Recently when I was playing some chord melody on a guitar in a music store, a 17 year old came up to me looking surprised and said "You're playing a melody....on the guitar." I said why not, it has notes and can make chords. He replied "But you're playing a melody." He was sincerely amazed and I engaged him in conversation. I found that he never even heard of the Big Band Era; didn't know what decade WWII took place in and did not know what half century the Civil War took place in. He was a middle class teenager and attended a local public high school and seemed sincere, honest and willing to converse. His lack of cultural connection to both the past and the larger society of adults was stunning.

Things have indeed changed.

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 4:36 pm**

Frank, the steel does do well with dirt, and also does well evoking dark angry emotions.
The fact that most of us choose not to go there doesn't IN ANY WAY mean it can't.

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 5:17 pm**

I love classic country as much as the next guy, however most of my pay days come from playing roots/alt/indi rock (whatever that is)

I believe that irrelevant instruction is high on the list for discouraging younger players. I think it is a mistake to use classic country music in the curriculum when many of the younger players are culturally in a different place.

Understand current music trends and teach the guitar in that context. That means teachers must at least accept the present/future music scene and have a vision of the pedal steel within.

I love "Way To Survive" as much as the next guy here. Many younger aspiring players, not so much. Try to force them to accept the classic country style as a prerequisite for learning pedal steel and meet resistance.

The above being said, I do not predict the demise of pedal steel. I meet new, younger players fairly frequently. They/we have somehow managed to find each other at gigs and on other online forums. Music and ideas are shared. The attitudes are optimistic, encouraging and respectful of the generations of players that paved the way.

Time marches on.

Just the way I experience my little piece of the world.

ymmv

h

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 5:19 pm**

Lane Gray wrote:Frank, the steel does do well with dirt, and also does well evoking dark angry emotions.
The fact that most of us choose not to go there doesn't IN ANY WAY mean it can't.

True for some types of music but the steel historically is overwhelmingly associated with clean sounds and doesn't lend itself to the on-stage gymnastics and posing that many contemporary young guitar players feel is important, if not primary to their performances.

Dark angry emotions have become a steady musical diet for lots of younger players in my corner of the country and dominate the musical preferences of so many....I don't know about other areas of the U.S.

I'm in New York. Lots of dark angry emotions here and little interest in "Moonlight In Vermont" or "Sleepwalk" types of melodies and the sentiments that they once inspired in the general public.

Posted: **8 Jan 2014 10:43 pm**

To me this pretty well sums it up.
click here

Posted: **9 Jan 2014 12:52 am**

Howard Parker wrote:I love classic country as much as the next guy, however most of my pay days come from playing roots/alt/indi rock (whatever that is)

I believe that irrelevant instruction is high on the list for discouraging younger players. I think it is a mistake to use classic country music in the curriculum when many of the younger players are culturally in a different place.

Understand current music trends and teach the guitar in that context. That means teachers must at least accept the present/future music scene and have a vision of the pedal steel within.

I love "Way To Survive" as much as the next guy here. Many younger aspiring players, not so much. Try to force them to accept the classic country style as a prerequisite for learning pedal steel and meet resistance.

The above being said, I do not predict the demise of pedal steel. I meet new, younger players fairly frequently. They/we have somehow managed to find each other at gigs and on other online forums. Music and ideas are shared. The attitudes are optimistic, encouraging and respectful of the generations of players that paved the way.

Time marches on.

Just the way I experience my little piece of the world.

ymmv

h

The question that a lot of us in our seventh decade of life is: my time is running out, so how do I want to spend it?

Perhaps I lack your altruism, Howard. As a teacher but also as a longtime player, I'm adverse to learning a bunch of music, songs, styles, whatever, that I don't care to listen to, much less spend time analyzing simply for the purpose of "reaching" a younger player.

If a player wants to know what I know, I'll help them out if possible. If he wants to learn "red dirt" or alternative/indie rock playing styles, I'm sure he can find an instructor who's as enamored of that music as he is. It's not that I think that music isn't valid and good, it's just not what interests me.

Purely a personal, non-judgemental decision. At 67 years of age and relatively comfortable, there are other things I want to do in life besides music that require my time and involvement. I certainly enjoy listening to, and performing, the music that I love, but it's not usually stuff that someone untutored in the music of the 30's through 60's would automatically gravitate to, unless they were of the ultra-hip (IMHO) variety. Basically, I play with kids my own age and in our own sandboxes.

Not just teaching, mind you: I got a call from an "up and coming" singer/songwriter, in his late 20's, who asked me to do a showcase with him. Twenty original songs, and could we have a couple rehearsals? He admitted that I'm worth a lot more, but all he could pay was $80.

I had to explain to him, nicely, that a one-off gig that involved learning and rehearsing 20 songs I will only play once for 80 bucks simply isn't what I do anymore. Nor am I up for getting in a van with musicians young enough to be my grandchildren driving all over the country while sacrificing "for the band."

Like I said, I simply don't have the time or the interest. Those gigs might be on the bucket list for others of my generation, so more power to ya. It won't be me standing in your way, and some of their women are spectacular... and really cute the way they say "grandpa" with a lot of tongue and lip/eyelid piercings.

Posted: **9 Jan 2014 1:40 am**

No doubt country music today is more "blend in with the band" and music produced is less honkytonk. And how many records produced today have "fast steel rides?" Not nearly enough to gain exposure. Couple that with steels that are costly even for beginner models and aren't "musically there" with all the changes needed for making appealing music. The learning curve, ect

Posted: **9 Jan 2014 1:55 am**

No doubt country music today is more "blend in with the band" and music produced is less honkytonk. And how many records produced today have "fast steel rides?" Not nearly enough to gain exposure. Couple that with steels that are costly even for beginner models and aren't "musically there" with all the changes needed for making appealing music. The learning curve, ect

Posted: **9 Jan 2014 7:41 am**

Perhaps I lack your altruism, Howard. As a teacher but also as a longtime player, I'm adverse to learning a bunch of music, songs, styles, whatever, that I don't care to listen to, much less spend time analyzing simply for the purpose of "reaching" a younger player.

No altruism on my part. You won't find me teaching.

I just figure when a teen wants to learn guitar he/she heads to the local "Music Mart" where they take lessons with a local guitar slinger who is not much older then the student. Teacher probably plays in a local cover band.

My impression is that most PSG teachers are in their 5th-7th decade. I wonder where all the 20-40 yo instructors are.

Cheers and hope to see you in Dallas Herb!

Howard

Posted: **9 Jan 2014 7:58 am**

Been thinking about this topic this AM... here is what I am thinking...

1) We need more men and women to come down off the professional high horse and be willing to sit on the pony to encourage kids, youth, etc.

2) I believe we need to teach the basics first. Pedal steel is intimidating. Start them with non pedal, standard tunings, and teach some good basic music, such as the Nashville Number System.

3) We need to refurbishers that will take some of these older cheaper steels and put a little time in them to make them a little more playable and be willing to take a little less for them. I applaud people like Doug Earnest and GFI who are producing good "starter" guitars that are of near pro quality for a cheaper price.

4) We need to invite younger folks to steel jams and shows (and make sure they are "clean" shows) and some of the participants / exhibitors take a little time with them.

We've went through / are going through the same thing in ham radio. Sending a text on an cell phone is heard to compete with. But doing a demo with a top dollar rig isn't going to bring them in, because they know right off the bat they can't afford it. But bring in some older, cheaper, but proper working equipment, teach a little theory, show them how to solder, make antennas, etc. and it becomes a little more interesting.

All this comes from a newbie approaching a one year anniversary of playing steel, and loving the heck out of it! And, I had to save and scrimp to get into steel. I sold 3 other 6 string and bass guitars and amps to even get started. I built my own steel seat, music / tab rack, and guitar neck pad, and everything I have is used! I am still playing a GFI Student and a Rogue C6 lap steel. Sure, I'd like to trade up, but hard to do on SS fixed income. But until them, I am going to use and enjoy what I have, and every time I can get someone here at the house, or somewhere else that will listen to me, I am going to play a little for them and tell them my story about steel guitar.

There you go, my thoughts...

Posted: **9 Jan 2014 9:30 am**

Ray Montee wrote:What has the steel guitar fraternity actually done to promote this fabulous instrument?

We've had our own conventions......serving our OWN needs.

We've followed our favorite instrumentalist thro' recording sessions with one artist or another.

But what has this done to promote the instrument among non-players?

Posted: **9 Jan 2014 10:33 am**

I live just round the corner from a record producer who owns a studio and his own record label. Although he himself is in his 60s he produces youngsters playing hip-hop, and all that sort of music that I have absolutely no knowledge of. I gave him some of my CDs of mediaeval music, which he didn't jump at the chance to get in on. On one occasion I got to talk with the leader of one of the hip-hop groups and I suggested that he add steel guitar, which he seemed very interested in. I gave him my number and he never called me back.

Let's face it, at 68 no teenagers are going to want to be seen with me in the band, and you can't blame them. The steel guitar has the reputation amongst young musicians as a hokey country instrument for middle-aged beer swillers, and the average teenager thinks it's a keyboard.

Now where did I put my lute?

Posted: **9 Jan 2014 12:03 pm**

Outside of the obvious hurdle that the pedal steel guitar is not an instrument of instant gratification, The problem lies in the marketing. No large music manufacturer like Fender, Gibson etc. will ever get into making pedal steel guitars unless they can sell a boat load at a time. Most all pedal steel guitars are made buy guys who have a small shop, probably out back of the house, where they make a handful of instruments a year. They don't do it for the money, but do it because they love it. God help us if this instrument became as popular as the six string guitar was in the 1950's. The large companies would make production an overregulated, mico managed mess. Imagine being a worker in a mechanized factory like that. I can see a memo coming down from some cost control geek in the upper office telling all the production workers to "cut several strokes off you sanding procedure" or try to find a cheaper supplier for bellcranks. Can you imagine what the price would be if all the labor was built into the price?
These guys who build them in their own shop would have to charge $5000 an instrument if they figured all the hours they put into building it at at $40 per hour.
Anyway, enough of my thoughts I am just glad that we are involved in something that Fender hasn't been able to figure out how to make a buck doing it.

Posted: **12 Jan 2014 12:58 pm**

I think the ukelele is a useful analogy here.
Firstly, the uke is a very affordable instrument and thus appeals to beginners.
It has been recently supported by publishers who have printed ukelele books of songs by current popular "youth culture" artists like Taylor Swift.
Ukeleles now outsell guitars at many music stores.
Price or marketing...you decide.

Posted: **12 Jan 2014 2:52 pm**

When we reach the stage where the steel guitar can be swung from the hips while the singer is making lewd girations it might appeal to the fickle public.

The public doesn't want good music. I remember what Earl Scruggs said in the 60s about the changing trends in public awareness; "The popularity of folk music will certainly separate the wheat from the chaff. The chaff will get into the hit parade..." $:\$

Posted: **13 Jan 2014 4:42 am**

In an interview songwriter Felice Bryant said that the intense, passionate and romantic songs from the early Everly Brothers days ("All I Have To Do Is Dream" etc.) and other similar music are not possible today. She said that such romance and passion is only possible in a culture where the innocence of the youth is the norm.

Posted: **13 Jan 2014 5:05 am**

I think we need another country music comeback. Remember when the movie Urban Cowboy came out? Almost overnight, discos were turning into honky tonks. There was also an influx of twanging Telecasters and crying steel guitars in the mid to late 1980's. It could happen again! In the meantime I think we need to keep on playing the music we love with our steels and maybe step outside of the ballpark and promote the PSG and what it's all about. Let's hang in there!

Posted: **13 Jan 2014 7:17 am**

One thing that gets lost in these bring back country discussions is..
This is entertainment not a monument to your intellect or musical talent. Enter-tain-ment..
Just like if the fat lady draws more people than the strong man at a circus.
I started a steel club in Austin geared towards newer players and it has now become more jazz orientated with a focused interested in putting on a show rather than promoting a club for steel guitarists.
It also doesn't help that many older steel guitarists are so over opinionated and fuddy dud stuck in the mud types.
You kids get out of my yard !!!
It is supposed to be a fun thing for all levels and interests in steel guitar.. Not an ego stroking machine.
I am sorry that Taylor Swift can out sell an old guy who looks like he is sitting in wheelchair but that's show biz and it is nothing new.

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