The Steel Guitar Forum

Paypal takes a big chunk out of the proceeds, international shipping IS more of a hassle, exchange rates can be fickle, etc. and etc.

It is more of a hassle to ship internationally from the USA than it is to ship within "ConUSA." Maybe not enough of a hassle for some folks but others don't have time or energy to mess around with it and some of us have had real expensive problems in the past. This decision is not a personal attack on those who do not live here, so please don't make our choice to not ship internationally a personal issue either. We do what we do, we're all trying to do the best we can and that should be enough.

Here's the deal: when you sell something and the buyer pays through Paypal, you get paid in USD (no problems with exchange rates), buyer can pay Paypal fees (you get your USD 100 that you asked), money directly into your bank account.

No hassle with money. Could not be easier.

So honestly, the customs form is what the hassle is about.

So that's actually how it is, right there...

/Sven

You're entirely right, Sven. The customs form is the ONLY difference, and it takes just two minutes to fill in.

Alan Brookes wrote:You're entirely right, Sven. The customs form is the ONLY difference, and it takes just two minutes to fill in.

Honestly that is not the only difference or risk/hassle involved.

Paypal: The buyer can reverse the payment without much hassle (many large payments automaticaly are put into an escrow anyway) and leave the seller with the loss. International litigation is much more complicated than domestic and the option of driving over to straighten it out personally is not available.

Bank Transfers: Although extremely common and foolproof in Europe direct bank transfers are not available in many banks in the USA. Many Americans are not comfortable with giving out there banking information.

I sell things overseas all the time and have no problem with it. But it is enough of a hassle to make it not worth the trouble if you can sell something to a guy down the block. There are many people that sell there used pedalsteels that refuse to ship at all. In many areas buyers are willing to drive on over or meet someplace to make a personal transaction. It doesn't mean the seller is a dummy or patriotic. It means they just don't feel like dealing with shipping. It takes all day to ship something yourself. Finding boxes/packing material and all that. Unless you go to a place that does it for you and that gets crazy expensive.

Bob, you're the right guy to get info from and who can teach us all a thing or two...
Didn't you sell that Emmons S-10 to my friend Per Berner a year ago?
What are your experiences from that sale?

Sven

I just happen to have a great sounding and playing D-10 push pull with 8 and 4. It is a 1982 model mechanically solid as they come, oh, and it's black. For $3500 plus shipping I will sell it to you. Here is the catch, I won't ship it over seas myself, but if you know someone who will, I can ship it to them and they can deal with the red tape if any. You have to pay any shipping charges to do all this. The guitar is definitely worth the trouble.

Hi Mike!
Could this be the black Emmons you tried to sell some months ago for 3 grand (among other guitars)...?

Well, I have no need for yet another one (got 2 nice black push pulls myself). Maybe someone else reading this would make a go for it...? I´m wondering though if increasing the price really is a successful strategy... No offense...

Sven

Sven Kontio wrote:Hi Mike!
Could this be the black Emmons you tried to sell some months ago for 3 grand (among other guitars)...?

Well, I have no need for yet another one (got 2 nice black push pulls myself). Maybe someone else reading this would make a go for it...? I´m wondering though if increasing the price really is a successful strategy... No offense...

Sven

I'm starting to think it may be the specfic address of the recipient and not just an international shipping thing.

I hope everyone realize I was just trying to be a little funny... I´m actually very surprised those guitars didn´t sell. Two of three push pulls out for sale since May?? And basically no interest? Come on! I haven´t seen that happen ever before.

chris ivey wrote: when santa claus and God aren't politically correct, you've got to start somewhere.

There's a lot of truth in that statement.

Mitch

Plus one on Dave Grafe and Bob Hofnair.

I had a problem that didn't involve the transfer of funds, or being unwilling to fill out a customs form.

The simple truth is that it CAN be more of a hassle to ship international than in the CONUS.

Some choose not to deal with it, and some do. It's a sellers option. If I lived in another country, and I had a choice :
1. Sell a steel to my Neighbor,
OR
2. Ship it overseas to the USA,
If I chose to do what was easiest for me (the seller) would it be an issue ?

He'll yeah, and.... let's keep it in the USA...we're getting sick of the sale off of just about everything from football teams, to Californian wood forests, to Russia , Japan and China!!
What's next? Emmons guitar Co owned by a paki ?

What happens if the steel guitar gets shipped, and the customer does not receive it? The good ole boy will be huffing and puffing and so will the poor customer who has paid up front creating mistrust and bad feelings!

Sven,
I sell and ship things overseas pretty often and I am set up to do so without too much hassle. I would suggest to sellers that they will be able to sell there guitars a bit easier if they are willing to export. The Europeans I have dealt with have been honest and graceful.


[/quote]

I've sold to Germany, France and the UK w/o problem in the past.

Recently I sold a guitar to a guy in Montreal, who transferred the funds before shipment as we agreed. Paypal then put the payment in escrow and would not let me withdraw the money until the buyer was satisfied. It took a while for the guitar to go through a Canadian clearinghouse, but I ultimately got paid (after a week of worry).

IMO, this puts most of the risk on the seller/shipper's shoulders, so now I'm less inclined to ship internationally.

To the OP:

I think a more effective way to break the national borders issue is to advertise that you do not vote either Republican or Democrat....

Not a problem for me, I'll ship my guitars to any Country, and have.
No red tape, no hassles at all. Pay Pal rocks!!!
The biggest hurdle is typing and printing the Customs forms on line, heck after the third or forth try even that is cool.
So Sven, I'm ready to take your order pal.

The customs and duties issues are not as simple as filling out a form. Sometimes customs will hold an item. Also if they search the package there is no telling how they are going to repack it.

The taxes and duties on imports to some countries is extreme so there can be conflicts between declared value and insurance. This needs to be agreed upon between the seller and buyer. The buyer takes the risk but the seller can be put in an awkward position.

There really are plenty of legitimate reasons for sellers in the USA to not be comfortable shipping internationally. Although, as far as I am concerned any extra hassle is well worth it. It seems like the chance of anything going wrong is about the same as shipping within the USA.

Pedal Steel Guitar is an instrument with, in relative numbers, few and definitely decreasing number of players. The instrument is endangered of becoming extinct as well as the player him- or herself.

I will happily condemn any actions resulting from parochialism, rabid nationalism, or xenophobia, as I believe these to be ingrained by faulty information processing. I must quibble with the above sentiment though, the "Pedal Steel is dying!" message. I also believe that to be based on not enough information... there are at least a dozen more pedal steel guitar manufacturers in business compared to whatever might be deemed the "golden era", I don't see Bobbe Seymour, Billy Cooper, Jim Palenscar running "going-out-of-business" sales. As soon as you turn off the radio & television and begin looking where steel guitar CAN be found - it's all over the place. Here:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208507

This argument comes around over and over, but it seems that it's the 1970's we really miss, not the steel guitars... As Lane Gray put it, the only place you hear about the death of steel guitar is on the steel guitar forum! I mean, I agree completely with your sentiment, you don't need to use any doubtful or unprovable premises to support it.

I was selling a Remington Pedal Steel, and a guy from
Austrailia wanted me to ship it to him.

I was asking 1500.00 for the guitar, and the shipper wanted 1700.00 to get it there. needless to say, It was sold in the states...

What happens if the steel guitar gets shipped, and the customer does not receive it? The good ole boy will be huffing and puffing and so will the poor customer who has paid up front creating mistrust and bad feelings![/quote]




Larry answer is ----Exactly what would happen as if it went missing in the USA !!

I once sent a Fender Stringmaster that I had restored to England via DHL and it was delivered safely within three days, even though it was snowing in England at the time. I seem to remember it cost about $80.
If a shipper wants to charge you over a thousand dollars to ship to Australia you should shop around for a different shipper. It shouldn't cost that much. I realise that England is only 5,500 miles away from California (only 2,000 from the East Coast), whilst Australia is more like 10,000 miles, but it's the same amount of work for the shipper. All he does it put it onto a aircraft and deliver it at the other end. It makes no difference how long the plane is in the air.

Despite the fact that all the hassle is with the buyer I must confess that, although I've been absolved of all and any liability once I've shipped the item, I can't help suffering just a little anxiety until I know that thje guitar has been received and the customer is satisfied. Perhaps that's just human nature (or, at least my nature).

I've shipped to London numerous times and twice to a Forumite in Germany - all transactions, happily, have gone smoothly. Thank goodness for PayPal, whose fees I think are reasonable given the security they provide.

Alan Brookes!!! So - you're a Hattons customer too, are you? I mostly buy die-cast buses and a few 1/43rd cars from them. I love that they subtract the VAT and then apply their very competitive shipping rates - most models cost me slightly less than UK retail, and that's delivered to my door! Good people. I said 'buses', but I'm currently awaiting a Cravens-bodied two-car DMU unit by Bachmann - green with the 'speed whiskers'. I also want Bachmann's 4MT 2-6-4 tank (80xxx series).

At what point do we get off this ridicules political correctness stupidity?
It seems odd that those who agree with all this political correctness call those who don’t bigots, raciest and any other God awful thing they can think just like it’s OK to hurt peoples feeling you don’t agree with.
The seller is trying to sell something in terms he wants. The seller has no obligation to explain why he wants it sold under those terms.
You say oh well he is going to lose potential buyers. No he’s not if that were the main consideration he would have chosen different terms.
If a person has a problem with my terms don’t buy and don’t send me a note telling me about how you feel about the terms. It’s not my problem.
Just because I don’t want sugar in my coffee doesn’t mean I’m prejudice against sugar.
It’s my stuff and I want what I want!

Roger Rettig wrote:...Alan Brookes!!! So - you're a Hattons customer too, are you? I mostly buy die-cast buses and a few 1/43rd cars from them. I love that they subtract the VAT and then apply their very competitive shipping rates - most models cost me slightly less than UK retail, and that's delivered to my door! Good people. I said 'buses', but I'm currently awaiting a Cravens-bodied two-car DMU unit by Bachmann - green with the 'speed whiskers'. I also want Bachmann's 4MT 2-6-4 tank (80xxx series).

Yes, I have both of those, and, of course, green with speed whiskers. I don't like the corporate blue that Beeching introduced, and no diesel is going to run on my layour with those ridiculous yellow ends which have spoilt the appearance of every loco since they were introduced. And yes, I have a collection of 00 buses and other vehicles on my layout, and I have a collection of 1/43rd cars, mainly replicas of ones I've owned, painted in the colours of mine with my old licence plate numbers, plus cars I would love to have owned but missed, like the Sunbeam Tiger that I once came close to buying, or the Jaguar XK120 which I just missed, although I did once have a Jaguar Mk. II, the quietest car I've ever driven.

It is naive to state that the customs form is the only difference in shipping out of the country. I refuse to ship anything they requires insurance if it must go through customs. I pack pedal steels impeccably. They are protected inside their cases with blocks protecting the pedal rack compartment and padding making sure nothing can even rattle in shipping, much less move. The cases are put inside a box I make of two inch styrofoam sheet and bound with cellophane sheet wrapped tightly around to form a cocoon. Then more styrofoam sheet fills around the package to tightly fit inside the outside cardboard box.
Twice in 2011 I had my shipped D-10s arrive with packing material missing, blown out pedal rack compartments, broken tuning keys, and one guitar arrived with a missing leg bag, legs and pedal rods!
Sven, if you think Customs agents that inspect shipments take the same care re packing the boxes they inspect you are kidding yourself. To tell us that the customs form is the only difference is naive.
Other than carrying a policy with Heritage, which used to cost me $1700, how do you insure, for example, a vintage instrument? Fed Ex will insure up to $50,000, however, items of unusual value are exempted -- even if you purchase the insurance. Musical instruments more than ten years old are not covered. If you are shipping an old Emmons you may be able to claim it is a new LeGrande and use LeGrande values, but what good does that do you if you are selling a $12,000 Wraparound?
Sven, maybe you just ship sweaters so you do not worry about how an item is repacked after inspection?