The Steel Guitar Forum

Mostly just pointing out some variance in tone between guitars.

Thanx for the info, Mark and Gregg, yeah, we have a weather up here, i did adjust the one of Rudy's first spun cones once early winter and again early late spring. Now it has a Beard cone and tuned to G6 without the D on top; sounds heavenly in home studio recordings but still has a hiss when hit heavily. And the headstock shape is the nicest i ever seen. I start saving some money to start to contact Mr McKenna.

mark...no, i just meant...in order to get the collaboration with scheerhorn, they must have been doing some impressive work on their own first. i had just never heard much about what they'd done.
...except peter grant's 10 string.

Okay, I get what you're saying Chris.

And to be totally accurate, Pete Grant's 10-string was actually made at OMI Dobro, during Don Young's final stint there, just prior to him leaving and forming the new company, reviving the National name.

Alluding to your question regarding collaborations, National Reso-Phonic has a number of irons in the fire about which I had no prior knowledge until a couple weeks ago when Don's business partner at National, Eric Smith posted the following on the Reso-Nation thread we've had going on the Nati-horns for five weeks or so.

...these first three instruments are very close if not identical to what the production guitars will be. The Maple will get a slightly darker burst on the outer edges. Tim's dramatic flamed maple is a result of hand rubbing aniline dies, vs our production way of spraying aniline. Ill try and enhance the figure on the next maple instruments. We are in production as of now! The first few will be going to Elderly Instruments and Artisan Guitars. My reason for not putting National on the instrument is pretty simple. In our factory we produce National, S&Y (Smith & Young), Scheerhorns and in time another couple very well known brands of instrumetns. Over that last 22 years I have made and still do make thousands of parts each year for other companies. These companies range from Flat-Tops, Selmer - Maccaferri, Dulcimer, Basses, Lap Steels to Ukuleles and Electric Guitars. Essentially Scheerhorns are being made in the same factory as Nationals even by the same employees whom take so much pride in what they produce, but they are not Nationals. They are Scheerhorns designed by Tim, built the way Tim wants them built. The label inside says "Made in San Luis Obispo, CA" as to identify the origin of the instrument.

The specs for these instruments are almost identical to Tim's, I took measurements from an instrument Tim provided during one of his visits. That instrument is still here at the shop and I revert back to it from time to time making sure that Tim's design is being conveyed through our production.

I hope this helps,

We have enjoyed building them, They sound simply incredible!!!

I wasn't aware of all the parts they supply to other builders. And I'm intrigued by the statement that in time they will be producing another couple very well known brands of instruments. Got the old wheels turning...is it possible they will rescue the Dobro brand from Gibson, which probably never should have bought the company in the 1990s to begin with?

I was at a performance here in Sonoma County a few weeks ago with Rob Ickes on dobro and Jim Hurst on guitar, and local mandolin hero and Mr. Dawg Music himself David Grisman joined in on the second set, a great evening of music!

I'm not going to be able to make it down to Anaheim, but I know a number of our members will be at the NAMM show later this month. Rob told me after the concert that he will be in attendance at the National booth promoting the new Scheerhorns, and possibly Tim Scheerhorn will be there as well.

I asked him what he thought of the guitars and in particular his rosewood/spruce signature model. He said he was very pleased, they look and sound great, and as others have commented who were in attendance at ResoSummit 2013 in Nashville in November, Tim Scheerhorn is also pleased with what he has seen so far in this collaboration with National Reso-Phonic.

Rob also commented that his model seems particularly loud, it really packs a punch. He said there have been a lot of orders for the guitars so far.

If you're going to be at NAMM then you definitely want to check out the Nati-horns at the National booth. And if you've never been up close and personal with Rob Ickes while he is playing, you're in for a huge treat!

Mike D wrote: People want these instruments for the same reason that someone will pay 3X more for a Ferrari that doesn't perform any better than a new Corvette.

The good news is that the Nati-horns are more like the guitar equivalent price-wise of the Corvette as opposed to the Ferrari.

These instruments are priced right now from $2600 to $3900. As written earlier in the thread, an actual Scheerhorn resonator guitar touched by Tim only starts @ $10,200. There's your Ferrari.

As far as the performance, that's for the individual to decide if the Ferrari is worth the extra dough.

I know that a number of members here will be in attendance at NAMM in Anaheim toward the end of next week. A buddy and I were thinking about making the road trip awhile back from where we live an hour north of San Francisco, but lack of funds right now will keep me from making the journey.

For those of you who will be going, the new Nati-horns will be shown at the National Reso-Phonic booth.

I was speaking with Rob Ickes after his show last month in nearby Sebastopol with brilliant guitarist Jim Hurst (bonus - David Grisman made the short drive from his place in Petaluma to join them in the second set - fantastic!).

We were talking about the new Nati-horns.  Rob will be at the National Reso-Phonic booth demonstrating the new line of guitars and I believe he said Tim Scheerhorn would be there along with him.  

Rob echoed what a number of the November ResoSummit attendees reported, the guitars look and sound great, and in the one-on-one with a banjo department (always a big matchup - like Chamberlain vs. Russell, or Larry Bird vs. Magic Johnson),  his signature model seems to be particularly loud. And as others have said,  he related that Tim seems very pleased with the instruments so far. 

Rob also said that National has received a lot of orders for the guitars. I don't know how many is "a lot,"  but apparently they are pretty happy in San Luis Obispo with the reception from the industry at this point in time. 

Along with the goodies at the National booth, Paul Beard will be at NAMM again this year with his own stash of goodies.

I spoke with Tim this morning and he will be there for the long weekend with Rob Ickes joining him on Saturday. Wish I could be there, looks like the weather is going to be spectacular...mid 70s and sunny! I have yet to try the new Scheerhorn L Bodies from National but by all accounts from the most discriminating players they are awesome. Whether Sono-Mark's nickname of "Nati-horn" gains any traction remains to be seen, but the product has certainly hit the ground running and orders have surpassed their predictions.

Why don't they just man up call it a National Scheerhorn?......that sounds like an ax that you can get a grip on, take it off the stand and smack it firmly down on your lap......My grandmother, great aunt and doilies comes to mind when I see "Nati-Horn"......maybe because they both used "Neti Pots".......

I have no doubt that this is going to be a great line of guitars......but come on.....marketing & advertising dept.....get your heads out of the neti pots....

It's a Scheerhorn L Body, according to the man himself. The sticker inside indicates it was made in California.

I like to call it Nati-horn because it reminds me a bit of "Matterhorn," and it rolls off the tongue real nice. And I'm one of the original promters of the moniker "Frugalhorn" for the no longer made Wechter/Scheerhorn guitars.

Doilies Howard? I'm still trying to figure out how that one popped into your head, deep from left field, Neti-Pots notwithstanding...

As Greg reiterated and I'm sure I posted earlier in the thread, these are Scheerhorn guitars, the sticker on the inside does not mention the name National, the only thing that gives it away is that it reads "made in San Luis Obispo, California." Though Tim Scheerhorn won't have actually "touched" them, National is a top drawer builder and they are from what Eric Smith has shared, being quite painstaking in getting these guitars right.

Bob Taylor doesn't actually "touch" many Taylor guitars anymore out on the factory floor in San Diego County, but they are still Taylor Guitars, anyway you slice 'em.

I've seen on Reso-Nation some very nice used dobros up for sale lately and they don't seem to be moving. I think a fair number of people in a buying mode for a high end resonator are waiting to check out the Nati-horns up close and personal before they decide on their purchase.

Mark, did you get a chance to play any of them at resoSummit? I'd be interested in an A/B test with your Clinesmith.

One other thought, the floor of the NAMM show will be a noisy place. I'd be wanting to test drive these babies in a more quiet place. Bring your aspirin. : )

Yeah, NAMM is noisy, but if one is going, might as well check them out while there.

I wasn't at ResoSummit this year, but I filled you in on details with a couple of the conversations I had with folks afterwards that did go in a PM.

Tim said there is an isolation booth you can go in to try acoustic instruments. As far as touching the CA made guitars, he is spinning all the cones himself and they are great. The Scheerhorn cone is my favorite, I believe Mark had Tim put one in his 'Smith which gave it a new lease on life.

Thanks Greg and Mark. I'll be checking these out for sure.

Greg Booth wrote:Tim said there is an isolation booth you can go in to try acoustic instruments. As far as touching the CA made guitars, he is spinning all the cones himself and they are great. The Scheerhorn cone is my favorite, I believe Mark had Tim put one in his 'Smith which gave it a new lease on life.

Greg and I noticed sort of concurrently during the first evening jam at ResoSummit 2010 in Nashville, probably because there were a whole bunch of other high quality resonator guitars around (including his wonderful maple Scheerhorn that has been featured in his excellent videos), in comparison my western big leaf maple Clinesmith was sounding kind of "tired" for lack of a better term. I'm rarely around fellow dobro players in my neck of the woods, so it's tough for me to do A/B comparisons for sound.

I do believe that these very thin aluminum alloy resonator cones after many thousands of "cycles" eventually begin losing their "spark" as it were. This was a Quarterman in a six year old guitar. One of the hardest picking dobro players out there is Randy Kohrs, he just brutalizes the thing on certain songs, and he used to have Tim Scheerhorn replace the Quarterman in his main guitar every two years. Since he switched to Scheerhorn cones they are lasting a lot longer. Since I don't put in the hours on the thing that Randy does, and I don't pick as hard, it makes sense that I would get about three times the duration out of a cone.

Tim teaches classes at ResoSummit on setup, etc. and has a work station available for cone replacement, a bit of maintenance, and certain fairly simple repairs over the long weekend, as does Paul Beard. I had Tim replace the "tired" Quarterman in my Clinesmith with one of his newish at the time 'horn cones at that ResoSummit along with doing a few little tweaks to the setup and after I picked it up for my next class session it almost sounded like a new guitar. And a little over three years later the guitar sounds better than ever.

Why do you suppose the Rob Ickes model is $900 more than the maple guitar? I can't believe that the wood is that more expensive or that it is that more difficult to build. Does Rob get $xxx per guitar as well?

I don't have any inside information but the Rob Ickes Wechter-Scheerhorn was also a few hundred more and these were Asian built laminate guitars. With the solid wood L Bodies I think the rosewood adds to the material cost and I'm guessing Rob gets something as well.

As he should. I guess it's consistent with "signiture" models from Beard, Fender and Martin.

Hey Tom,
great guitar! is it yours?

Yeah, that's Tom's new guitar. Suffering from incurable GAS but with a wallet prohibiting new purchases, I am green with envy.

As far as Martin signature models, though it's possible Clapton could have a different arrangement with Martin because his signature models have been enormously successful and thousands have been sold, the player/artist that the signature model is made for does not receive royalties or compensation.

He/she receives one, or possibly two free instruments of their model, and a percentage of the profits Martin makes on the sales of the others of that model are sent to a charity or non-profit cause that is the choice of the artist. I have read that some of the artists have purchased several of their models to give out to friends or family as gifts - I'm still waiting for one.

Most of the Martin signature models are produced in relatively low numbers then "retired" - it can 50, 75, 100, 150 or in some cases more - there are Mark Knopfler and Laurence Juber models that according to the book I have by Martin's Dick Boak entitled Martin Guitar Masterpieces, about 250 of each were made. Even if there were some sort of royalty involved in most cases it wouldn't seem to amount to a whole lot.

Back to the thread at hand. A few folks have filmed demos of the Nati-horns including Tom, maybe he'll put up his demo.

I still like Nati-horn but one might make a case for New-horn?

Below is a link to Andy Dunnigan @ Greg Boyd's in Montana putting the mahogany through its paces and he's using a pro microphone for the job, so it's probably the best example yet short of hearing one up close and personal.

This guitar really projects - it is unquestionably an L-Body Scheerhorn. The skilled and talented folks at National are doing a great job on these guitars. So much so that Eric Smith, Don Young's partner in the company posted on Reso-Nation awhile back that they temporarily halted production on the other wood-bodied guitars in San Luis Obispo because they need to catch up on all the orders which have come in and don't want to get too far behind. These are the real deal, folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd8r9xazbNI

Ok, here's the link to the clip Mark was referring to. It's a crummy iPhone video clip, one-take special. Doesn't really do the guitar justice. But maybe you can get a feel of it from a raw, unedited, no-effects style video and audio.

It really is a great guitar. My playing has taken a big step forward with this guitar. I really love it.

I forgot just how responsive to hard and soft picking Scheerhorns are. This can make for a nice dynamic range which translates into more expression.

This is mahogony ser. #4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4_gfRSdaec