I kind of wish people would stop paying premiums for steels.

Bill Lowe · Post by **Bill Lowe** » 2 Apr 2013 1:48 am

I like cake

Bill Lowe · Post by **Bill Lowe** » 2 Apr 2013 1:48 am

I like cake

Alan Berdoulay · Post by **Alan Berdoulay** » 2 Apr 2013 2:58 am

......seems to me that pedal steel cost is reasonable considering all the time and materials that go into one.
......i routinely see nice deals pass through this site. If you want one, ya gotta check back regularly and be ready to jump. Anybody notice that msa universal with an asking price of $800?

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 2 Apr 2013 5:33 am

Pedal steels are a bargain. 40 years ago, a starter steel like a Maverick was around $450, and you could pick up a vintage Telecaster for $150-200, a new one more like 300. A pro-model Sho Bud or push-pull S10 was maybe $700-800, and D10 was more like $1000-1200, as I recall. These were the prices I saw when looking at the time, and they were so high as to discourage me (a poor student) from buying one then. I 'suffered' with my old Fender.

Nowadays, you can get a Maverick for around $450 in good shape if you're reasonably patient. A Professional grade Sho Bud can still be had for $1500-2000 in good shape, I see them on this forum. Most push-pull D10s in good shape are still in the $3000 range in good shape, plus or minus a few hundred dollars. The couple of examples I saw of low-mid $2000's were, IMO, a quirk of a very bad recession. A premium new guitar like an Emmons, Zum, or Mullen is in the general 5 grand range, plus or minus several hundred.

Now let's look at the inflation index. In the last 40 years, general inflation has raised prices about 522%. So that $450 Maverick from 1973 is about $2350 in 2013 dollars. You can get a great pedal steel from someone like Fred Justice or Doug Earnest for significantly less than that.

Or consider that $1000-1200 D10 from 1973. That's now around $5200-6250 in 2013 dollars. Only Bigsbys and early (65 wraparound or 66 bolt-on) Emmons are significantly more, excepting those that have had a huge restoration and are pushing closer to the new price.

OK, Franklins and Anapegs are more. But pretty much everything else in the 'standard' brands are about the same cost to build, in comparable dollars. So my take is that most builders margins must be dictated primarily by the cost of building, which, when you think about it, is enormous compared to most 6-string guitars, and certainly any plank-of-wood Tele.

Now think about that, let's say, 50s Tele bought in 1973 for, let's say on the high side, $200, inflation-adjusted to 2013, is around $1050. But guess what - in excellent original conditions, it brings anywhere from $20,000-80,000, depending on the exact vintage. Early-mid 60s versions more in the 8-15 grand range, again depending on year. Even that new 1973 Tele in the $300 or so range would be around 1550 in 2013 dollars, and a nice one of those is more like 3-4 grand now. You can get a new American-made Tele with the new design for around a grand, reissue specs more like $1500, custom-shop vintage-specs more like $3-4 grand. Less for used. The premium new guitars are actually ahead of inflation, but modern manufacturing techniques have actually lowered the cost/price of things like American Std. guitars. Similar price differentials exist for other makes like Gibson.

So really - pedal steels are a bargain. They are custom, hand-build for the most part, much like a super-premium modern guitar. The strong relation between asking price and cost-to-build indicates that there is definitely no gouging of any sort going on, and frankly, this pattern paints a fairly limited market. Supply and demand is actually working in the consumer's favor, except for certain instruments with rarity and a particularly strong following.

My take.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 2 Apr 2013 6:50 am

...50s Tele bought in 1973 for, let's say on the high side, $200

You're bringing back a lot of memories, Dave! I bought a 50s Tele in 1971 for $130! That would be about $750 in today's money.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 2 Apr 2013 6:56 am

We need "Obamasteel" where everybody gets the exact same steel, at the exact same price that is built and sold by a single party government manufacturer. No price haggling, no more arguments about which guitar sounds better, etc.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 2 Apr 2013 7:29 am

Supply & demand. There are about twice as many people on the face of the earth, therefore about twice as many folks trying to get a piece of those old guitars, as there were about 20-25 years ago.
And some folks really like to keep stuff.
I met some folks just last night and the guy had a beautiful double 8 stringmaster, looked all original. The guy didn't play it at all. Just kept it set up in the corner next to a refurbished pin-ball machine cause he liked the way it looked.

Shorty Rogers · Post by **Shorty Rogers** » 2 Apr 2013 7:30 am

Dr. Glassman, at first I thought your comment was off topic, but after further consideration, I realize that this thread is really about whining. Things change. Get over it.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 2 Apr 2013 7:42 am

Can't understand why the most expensive steels are the ones I'm trying to buy and the cheapest are the one's I'm selling!!!!!! $:\$ $:\$

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 2 Apr 2013 7:43 am

I don't think the crossover of old electric guitars into the antiques/financier/investment market has too much to do with old steels - yet - although the owners of Bigsbys and P/P's sure do want it to.

John Scanlon · Post by **John Scanlon** » 2 Apr 2013 1:08 pm

Tony Glassman wrote:We need "Obamasteel" where everybody gets the exact same steel, at the exact same price that is built and sold by a single party government manufacturer. No price haggling, no more arguments about which guitar sounds better, etc.

How in the world is this not in violation of forum rules?

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 2 Apr 2013 1:27 pm

According to my calculations by comparing minimum wages to price of guitars year by year. Steel guitars are 2/3 higher priced than they were in the 60's. Of course, I never was good at math.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 2 Apr 2013 1:29 pm

Correct my above post, they are 1/3 lower priced than the 60's. See, I told ya I wasn't good at math.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 2 Apr 2013 2:29 pm

Pedal steels are still an incredible value. (What else, other than electronic goods, costs only three times what it did 50 years ago?) There are plenty good buys out there. Of course, if you have to have one certain brand, you will probably pay too much. (Ask any car dealer...they absolutely LOVE sucker-buyers who won't consider another make.

)

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 2 Apr 2013 2:41 pm

I bought a new Emmons D-10 in 1979 for $1400. That's about $4500 in today's dollars.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 2 Apr 2013 4:29 pm

Tony Glassman wrote:We need "Obamasteel" where everybody gets the exact same steel, at the exact same price that is built and sold by a single party government manufacturer. No price haggling, no more arguments about which guitar sounds better, etc.

I'm in your camp tony, and i wouldn't be against that!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Apr 2013 4:49 pm

Larry Bressington wrote:
Tony Glassman wrote:We need "Obamasteel" where everybody gets the exact same steel, at the exact same price that is built and sold by a single party government manufacturer. No price haggling, no more arguments about which guitar sounds better, etc.
I'm in your camp tony, and i wouldn't be against that!

Oh yeah?!

And let some unelected government bureaucrat tell me what copedent I can use, and what I can't use?!

I don't THINK so!!!

And then hear some jack-booted Commisar tell me that "nobody NEEDS a 30-knee lever guitar for their personal use?"

I'd like to see him TRY IT!!!

And when the Federal marshals show up at my door to confiscate my collection of pre-war* Emmons guitars, will there be a Waco-style confrontation?

You bet there will!!!

(*pre-Granada Invasion war)

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 2 Apr 2013 5:42 pm

Larry Bressington wrote:
Tony Glassman wrote:We need "Obamasteel" where everybody gets the exact same steel, at the exact same price that is built and sold by a single party government manufacturer. No price haggling, no more arguments about which guitar sounds better, etc.
I'm in your camp tony, and i wouldn't be against that!

Larry, I was just being facetious.

Shorty, you are right, this post is about whining. We live in a capitalist economy, where people can buy or sell guitars for whatever price they wish. I'm tired of people whining that they should be entitled to buy a guitar at a price they feel is affordable. Sorry, it's a market driven society.

With respect to "change" -- change in and of itself is not always good (e.g. The Volsted Act). I'm not going to get into the many pitfalls of government regulated medicine or anything else on the SGF but I'd be happy to oblige you off-forum.

Herb, I'm with ya

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 2 Apr 2013 5:48 pm

in my tax bracket, even with what obamasteel was 'supposed' to do i can't afford a plan.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Apr 2013 5:50 pm

chris ivey wrote:in my tax bracket, even with what obamasteel was 'supposed' to do i can't afford a plan.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 2 Apr 2013 6:12 pm

Just Jizzing you mates... beside's i know i'll loose!

On a serious note... 'Used' is the way to go because there are many great one's barely touched within a year old, kind of like buying a car 1 year old, loose the retail and still have value.

Compared to cars and everything else, steel's are still made by hand and very labour intensive, one at a time!

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 2 Apr 2013 6:21 pm

I am all done buying steel guitars.I wish I could say the same for amps.....

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 2 Apr 2013 8:44 pm

Len Amaral wrote:I am all done buying steel guitars.I wish I could say the same for amps.....

I know what you mean........ I'm starting to develop a huge "jones" for one of those new spendy boutique tube amps (Little Walter, Milkman etc.). Hard to justify the $$ though, considering my current paucity of gigs.

Bill L. Wilson · Post by **Bill L. Wilson** » 2 Apr 2013 10:06 pm

After nearly gittin' killed in a truck wreck in, '05, I told my wife, "you can pay all the bills you want, with the insurance money, but I want a good steel guitar." So for 2400bucks, I bought a Emmons LeGrande II D10 8and5. The only other really good steel I had ever owned was a ZB, D10, with just 2knees. To me, even having the money to buy the Emmons, I thought it was way too much. But looking back, it was a purdy good deal, and I'm still happy with it.

The Steel Guitar Forum

I kind of wish people would stop paying premiums for steels.

topic drift

Price of a good steel.