The Steel Guitar Forum

Karen I hope your doing good! Long time no see. Hey if youve got a BJS bar why would you need a zirc? Just sayin'.....

The end of the 15/16" white Zircs is here = no mas!

Black 15/16th still available.

Edp

I use the BJS Hughey and like it best of all.

Leo Grassl wrote: Hey if youve got a BJS bar why would you need a zirc? Just sayin'.....

I feel the same way, but then again... just sayin'. I really don't obsess that much over my bars, just so long as they're chromed. I found that some stainless bars drag on stainless strings, which I use.

I have mostly BJS 7/8 bars, but I do have a BJS Hughey (15/16, hollow). I use the Hughey for ballad playing on E9, as the larger diameter gives a wider vibrato it seems. I think a solid 15/16 would yield a warmer tone, because of more mass on the strings, and would be slower to move. But I don't have a solid 15/16.

I also have a "frozen" Pearse bar that John gave me and I like it very much also, but I continue to return to the BJS collection.

I played several zirc bars and never thought they were worth the bucks, but that's just me. Others' mileage varies.

Herb Steiner wrote:... just sayin'. I really don't obsess that much over my bars, just so long as they're chromed. I found that some stainless bars drag on stainless strings, which I use.

There are a few things to qualify regarding stainless steel tone bars compared to chrome plated steel tone bars.

Common knowledge tells us that most plain guitar strings are made from some sort of carbon steel. There may be a few manufacturers making these from stainless (most likely a type 304 stainless for it's mechanical properties). As for the wound strings for electric guitars; they can be nickel (nickel plated steel) wound or stainless steel wound (again, the stainless steel is most likely type 304 stainless).

A trait of stainless steel wound strings and stainless steel tone bars is their tendency toward friction drag. This is due to the alloy of the steel. I think Dunlop uses type 316 stainless for their bars. The harder the material the less friction and incidentally, the brighter and more sustaining the tone will be (even though stainless wound strings are already fairly bright sounding).

Regarding hardness: Type 304 stainless rates at about 70 for a Rockwell B test. Chrome will test out to about 69 - 71 for a Rockwell C test. (NOTE: Rockwell C testing is done for materials which test harder than 100 on a Rockwell B test.) However, when testing the hardness of chrome plating the thickness of the plating is critical. The test depth for a Rockwell C test is about 0.022". If the plating is thinner than 0.022" the substrate material will effect the hardness result.

A number of years ago I played a Sierra S14 guitar and I had a custom tone bar made for it. The tone bar was made from a tempered billet of type 440C stainless steel. Dimensionally. it was 1.00" dia, x 4.00" length and was machined to a mirror finish - it was quite massive. Type 440C stainless is a high-carbon, chromoly, martenistic stainless steel. It can be tempered to a hardness of about 60, Rockwell C. Because of that it never scratched, dinged or showed any signs wear. Had it not been for the fact that I acquired the material as scrap from a research project, and a good friend machined it for me, it would have been quite an expensive bar to produce.

The tone from that bar was rich and deep and induced great string sustain due to it's hardness, size and mass. However, over time I stopped using it on gigs because of it's size and mass. I was able to bar fret with greater accuracy and agility with a standard 10-string tone bar. When I sold the Sierra the custom tone bar went with it.

Keep on pickin'
Glenn

my BJS's are 7/8" and Butch is out of John Hughey's so I'm looking at Zircs

Karen,
I guarantee you will not be disappointed.

About 12 years ago when I was just starting to play my left thumb was severed and reattached. When all of the bandages were gone and I started to play again because of the swelling in my thumb I couldn't use my 7/8 tone bar. I had a friend make me a 1 inch stainless steel bar. So that it wouldn't be so heavy he hollowed out the inside about half the length and it was perfect for me. When all the swelling was gone I tried using the 7/8 but I didn't like as well. I'm still using the 1 inch today and love it.

I have just gone from a no name 1/2" bar to a full 1 inch BJS -the difference is astounding.The highs are emphasised -the sustain is far more- and the pedal changes seem more apparent.It is as if I am playing a new guitar-it really is that different.Will not be going back to anything else.It just shows you how a small and relatively cheap change can transform your sound.

I have a new 15/16 BJS solid bar that I would part with. I gave it a try, but prefer a 1" bar

You wanna sell me that bar Steve?

My feelings on bars are about the same as Herb's...I don't obsess over them a lot. I feel really advanced players may get small sonic advantages out of different ones, but that the gains for the average player are incredibly small, and that changes in technique or plain ol' "woodshed time" will improve your playing and tone far more far more than anything you can buy. When it comes to clean playing, a good tone, and truly musical sound, I think most of that lies in the player's ability, and not in gear choices or gizmos.

Meaningless as that might be to others, all my years of playing and listening have brought me to that conclusion. There simply are no short cuts to a good sound.

I alternate between using a 1 inch BJS bar and one of the original 1997-8 zirc bars, which are also 1 inch. Both bars are 3 and 1/2 inches long. (Remember I play a 12 string)

Pearse makes a 1 inch bar, but not in my preferred length. If they did, I'd use one of theirs too.

Breezy Ridge, the Pearse company isn't part of our community. We all want to "keep it in the family," and buy the products made by other steel players and our friends and members of the forum. But all that has nothing to do with the quality of the products. In my opinion, the Pearse frozen bar is every bit as good as either the zirc or BJS. Maybe even a half of a hair's width better.

The BJS and zirc bars do sound different. The difference is very subtle, but my wife, who is not a musician, can tell which is which when I compare them. The bars sustain differently. The zirc bar emphasizes the initial attack more. The notes are a little cleaner. The BJS emphasizes the sustain more.

The difference is so slight it's like comparing light red with dark pink. It really wouldn't matter on a gig, but sitting at home, comparing them, I and my wife can both hear the difference.

The REAL difference between the BJS and the zirc is in the way they feel when you play. The zirc produces no friction against the strings. It's like the old song. "You never miss your water till your well runs dry." You never notice how much friction the BJS bar produces till it's suddenly not there any more.

So, which one do I prefer? The answer is that I don't know. One day I'll use one, another I'll use the other.

At my January 13 concert, all the musicians wore black, so I used my white steel, and the equally white zirc bar, strictly for the visual effect.

Well, I just bought 2 more zirc bars 15/16" black, to go with the same dimension white ones. I thought I'd stock up since it may be a long time (if ever) that anybody decides to take up that task again. A big thank you to Ed Packard for making these available.

Like some others on here I'll alternate which I use (BJS or Zirc), in my humble opinion they're both great bars. I also have a couple of Paloma bars I have used on occasion.

Thanks for the comments on the different bars and their perceived properties difference.

The Zirc bars were not "engineered" for the properties, what it was is what you got. The key results are from the material properties and the bar making process. The important finished properties are hardness, smoothness, abrasion resistance, and thermal conductivity (the source of the "warm" feel.

The end of the ZIRC bar is in sight, so if you want one order soon. Vinh Nguyen at ZIRBAR is your contact (search for ZIRC BARS).

I really can't comment on the difference between the 7/8" and the 15/16", but I can relate this observation...
I use a 1" bar most of the time, and to my ears it gives a better overall tone.
But, when I use the 7/8" - especially on a slow tune - I find that I have more control over differences in dynamics, or dynamic tonality. More dynamic shadings in tone, so to speak.
I think it's just that the lighter bar responds to subtle changes in hand pressure more than the heavier, 1" bar.
JMHO...