The Steel Guitar Forum

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No regrets at all. A few people on this Forum certainly inspired me to go ahead enjoy retirement. I am too old and tired to do battle everyday just to try to sell a product.

However I do still enjoy helping out where I can on the Forum and am most appreciative of the business and relationship sit has presented me over the years.

Sorry guys dont mean for anyone to feel hurt out there.... Problem is guys like me out here in Albuquerque and most a the other states in the US don't have the opportunity to go to the local music stores to try and compare the differant Boutiques out there cause nobody can stock them...Only optiion is to go to a big steel convention like Dallas , St Louis ,or Pheonix which Ive never been free to do cause a my playing schedual.. Nashville would be about the only place where you could meet people to compare your products.. Therefore I seek the opinions of people hear on the forum ..Its all I got to go by..

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Well Tim look at it this way.. It was through this post that I got wind of the Milkman as another option.. I had never heard a Milkman Amps before this so through listening to what the other forum members have said it got me a step closer to giving a listen to your product..

I always wonder, do the high level players, get a significant discount on this type of equipment? Or better yet, free stuff and quick service, when backing major artists. After all, a big name player can sell about anything, whether it's strings, bars, guitars, amps, etc. I have a few friends that back artists, that had hits yrs ago, but still tour regularly, and they still get free equipment. Just wondering, cause my old Session 400 Ltd. was only 200bucks. and if you heard my steel playing, you'd agree, an LW ain't gonna help him.

Bill L. Wilson wrote:I always wonder, do the high level players, get a significant discount on this type of equipment? Or better yet, free stuff and quick service, when backing major artists. After all, a big name player can sell about anything, whether it's strings, bars, guitars, amps, etc. I have a few friends that back artists, that had hits yrs ago, but still tour regularly, and they still get free equipment. ....

Bill, I don't know any small instrument or amp builders who can afford to give stuff away, especially one person operations like Little Walter or Milkman. Many builders will offer 'pro' discounts, but it's usually not what I would consider 'significant'. I remember in the old days I was offered a free Sho Bud guitar (turned that down), and I was able to buy a Peavey Session 400 at a *very* steep discount (way more than 50% off list price).

I apologize for hijacking this Little Walter thread to respond to the Milkman comment, but I do have actual experience with it and thought I should clear up the issue. After this I'll head back to the Milkman thread for my comments...

Using the Milkman at low volume was a big question of mine..had long discussions with Tim about putting in a half-power switch...he said to try it the way it was, and I'm glad I did. The tone is full and crisp and deep at any volume at all. And having those big transformers in there is, as with any amp, a big help to the fullness of the tone as soon as you get to even a medium volume. The tone sounds "big" in a way that is hard to describe but easy to hear when you actually play the amp... Note that I am NOT comparing it to Little Walter tone, as I haven't played a LW myself.

I brought it up with Tim because I've had other amps - Marshalls and Twins - that needed to be at a certain minimum volume before they could "breathe" and get a full tone. Tim EQ'd the Milkman so that the low end comes on fully even at low volume, and that make it work over the whole range, even at bedroom volume.

I'm sure that both the Milkman and the Little Walter are wonderful amps, and people should talk with their makers and play both if they can...it is unfortunate that there aren't showrooms all over the country where you can plug into both of them and take them for a spin, but that is the nature of boutique amps, until they get to be so famous that stores will stock them.....

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One Big Happy Family At My House!

I did not read PF bashing anybody's amps. He stated his preference and his reasons for it. Thats not bashing in my book. It's the opinon of a respected professional.

Gordon... you have all the diamonds!

Franklin wrote:Anything above 50 watts changes the smooth tone range of a lower wattage amp.

Paul, I think I see what you are saying by this. If I understand correctly, you are saying that anything above 50 watts might be more dynamically responsive or spikier than one would like. Is that right? Is that a volume dependent phenomenon? Not trying to challenge anything you are saying, just trying to understand---it's an interesting comment. Much respect--thanks for chiming in here.

I have to nod to Steve's comment above----the Milkman PS amp behaves much differently than any other high wattage tube amp I've played. It has all the life and a great smooth feel through a wider volume range.

JR, obviously there is no single amp that will be perfect for everyone. What is first for you may be second for someone else. One of the other things you might also want to consider is the amount of EQ available ---that can be off-putting for some users to have a single tone control. I like to be able to tweak individual parts of the range a little more to tune to the room, surfaces, other players, etc. That said, I really would love to try one of the LW amps myself! Good luck!

JR.. Sorry you won't be making it to the show but I look forward to meeting your friend. Tell him to be sure and introduce himself. I will have the 50, the VG 50, the Twin 50 and the new 22 watt (lap steel) with a 112 and 212 speaker cabs in the Little Walter Tube Amp room.
Carol and I have been working 2 shifts a day for a month to be able to take this week to attend this show. For those of you who may not know, I build all of the amplifiers "one at a time". This show is very important to us as we have come to know so many of you personally and know that you are also taking your time to come out and attend the show. Please stop by and take a look and a listen!

Gibson Hartwell wrote:
Paul, I think I see what you are saying by this. If I understand correctly, you are saying that anything above 50 watts might be more dynamically responsive or spikier than one would like. Is that right? Is that a volume dependent phenomenon? Not trying to challenge anything you are saying, just trying to understand---it's an interesting comment. Much respect--thanks for chiming in here.

Gibson,

The answer to your first question.....To my ears, Its not "might be"....It "does alter"......When the gain structure is increased and more EQ controls are added in comes the harshness and the type of clarity, smoothness, and dynamic responsiveness I desire diminishes.......Yes builders can do a few things to soften the differences between low watts and high watts but its not enough to prompt me to throw down my money....In fact I don't care how something is made. I only care about how it sounds....To my ears my Fender Deluxe is a far better sounding amp than any twin I own and I have several.

Tweaking an original design for volume gains and more EQ control, as you say, is also changing the vintage tone of the original design. I'm after pure tube tone, and I am not influenced by light weight speakers and more knobs. I hear the advantages I get by playing through a pure unfiltered tube amp like the Little Walter.....Here's a simpler resolve to more control...I can add an EQ pedal if and when I would ever need more control which so far has not happened........

JR asked for my opinion.....The Little Walter is my cup of tea....I buy amps like you and I never buy salesmanship over what I hear.......As a consumer I walk away from many products....I also said nothing about any amp sounding bad, only different..........We all buy what we like which is why no single brand of amp or guitar dominates in all corners. Also no two amp designs create the same tonal variances.

The 50/50 LW is two separate 50 watt amps in one amp head.......Nothing gets lost or changed from the original design and I am totally satisfied and I stand by my statement using the word "unequalled" with regards to the tone of the Little Walter.

Paul

Paul:

Very well stated and I respect your opinion. One issue that may have not been addresed is the type of playing situation diffrent players are into. If you play in a venue where every amp is miced into every monitor and the into the PA to cover the audience then a low wattage amp is basically a monitor for yourself.

The old school guys that use an amp not only to hear themselves but cover the general sound into the crowd as well as the rest of the band. I have a Little Walter amp and use it with a two players using acoustic guitars, a light bass player and the LW sounds GREAT. If i paly with with a loud drummer & bass player with cranking guitar player I have to use an amp with more steam to keep up.

Phil adds a special addition to the LW amp as he gives the amp a name of your choice. Mine is named "Eunice" after my mom. How cool is that!

Lenny

Are we talking RMS watts on these Little Walter's?

Phil..I sure wish I was gonna be there.. I talked to my Buddy Mickey Adams who will be working and playing in the Mullen Steels room.. He s also performing tonight.. I already talked to him and Im sure hes gonna give a good look at your LW rigs.. He's one a the most respected, well known, and talented Steelers in this forum.. Oh and not to mention a great guy. I am awaiting anxiously his opinion on what you have to offer... One question I have is what do people use for a reverb tank since you amps don't use them? I always thought a Spring reverb was the most dynamic and warm sounding.. I use a Pot XT 2 for a lot a my effects and it has a reverb on it but I think it is kind of electronic sounding as a stand alone effect if you know what I mean..Maybe Paul F. could chime in again.. I m guessing he may also use a rack system in addition for his reverb and maybe delay settings? As you and Paul both stated ..The more knobs and effects you add diminishes the dynamic warmth and range on aplifiers so I thing the reverb and delay units should be compatible to this theory as well

Gordon please chime in with your opinion on your Little walter Equipment.. also I see you have one a the smaller Milkman Amps.. Is that the smaller Steel 50 watt Steel version of the 85 watt size.. Please tell me how the sound compares since you have both the LW and the Milkman..

Steve thanks for explaining what you like about the Milkman Amps.. Before this thread I was not aware that there was another amplifier on the market of that high quality..

JR,

I can't compare the LW50 to my Milkman amp because I have his 5 watt version, so it is really more of a guitar or lap steel amp than a pedal steel amp. But, the quality, appearance, and service from both builders was great.

There are a few people on the forum that have played both the LW50 and Milkman steel amps, hopefully they will message you and give you their opinions.

I have the LW50 and use either a 15inch cab loaded with 4-ohm SICA neodymium, or a 2x12 cab loaded with 1 1201 Peavey Black widow speaker and 1 Eminence EJ1250. I like having one speaker that stays totally clean and the other to break up a bit when the amp is cranked. Here are a couple tracks I played on using my Rains with a Tonealinger pickup the LW50, 15inch Cab, and a wet reverb.

http://kamarathomas.bandcamp.com/track/you-wreck-me
http://kamarathomas.bandcamp.com/track/my-kentucky
http://kamarathomas.bandcamp.com/track/red-wing

After reading, talking to builders...my understanding is a tone knob does not add anything to an amps circuit, but only prevent the full signal from passing through the whole circuit. So if you want to hear the full circuit, you would turn up the Bass, Mid, High tone knobs to 100%. You could say that most modern guitar amp circuits are over engineered, and are not intended to be ran with all the tone knobs at 100%. The tone knobs are used more to tame the circuit. And give you as much flexibility with creating many different tones.

I think the philosophy behind the LW amps are a bit different. The circuit is not over engineered. It is designed so you can run the amp wide open if you choose to. Run the amp with the tone knob turned up 100% and the amp never sounds shrill, trebly or thin. It does a great job of representing whatever guitar your are playing through it.

We are lucky in the steel guitar community that we can reach out and talk to Phil at Little Walter, Tim at Milkman Amps, and Ken Fox at Fox Vintage Amps. When purchasing a boutique amp I strongly suggest talking with these builders about their amps and what you are looking for. Each amp I have has a unique voice, and I plan on holding on to all of them.

Gordon

Also if anyone has any questions feel free to email me your phone # and I can give you a call.

Great songs Gordon...

Gordon..Great recordings you have there and the steel has great tone and fat sound.. What are you using for reverb and delay?

JR,

I was using a WET Reverb. http://www.neunabertechnology.com/gear/wet-reverb

If there is any delay, it would have been added in protools, but I think it's only reverb on the steel.

Gordon

I have the twin 50 and to me it the best sounding amp I have used.
It is worth every penny.....and I would agree its the best sounding tube amp for steel guitar.

Smaller gigs I just use one amp.......louder gigs I use the 2 amps. Same tone...same quality with 2 amps.

Thanks Jamie..That's the type of feedback I'm lookin for...All you steelers out there at the Dallas show ..Be sure to post back to me your opinions on these amps Phil is bringing...