There Are NO Fans Of Steel Guitar Music

Larry Johnson · Post by **Larry Johnson** » 10 Dec 2012 8:48 am

Please go to You-Tube and pull up Murder On Music Row. There is your answer. That song should be every Steel Guitarist's anthem. L.Johnson

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 10 Dec 2012 8:56 am

One thing I noticed about instumental steel guitar albums is that when a song is being played, the voice part is played on the steel, and the former steel part (if there originally was one) is now played by another instrument. So the process is reversed in a way. Somehow unnatural.
But this doesn't mean that I don't enjoy to listen to them once in a while, but they're not on my preference list when I feel like listening to music.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 10 Dec 2012 9:13 am

My $.02 worth:

Stand-up console steel guitar has a better chance of becoming mainstream than the pedal steel.
But, it must be new up-scale Hawaiian style.
Hawaiian can be revived; but there must be new tunes with new lyrics.
It must be done by an attractive group with a new gimick.
Today, even when Hawaiian players play slow songs they play them too slow.

Jazz players and players like Robert Randolph won't do it __ these styles are better played on six string standard electrics, piano, and horns.

Who listens to Robert's eleven glissandos in one tune on a recording? ...boring, boring!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 10 Dec 2012 9:18 am

Rick Collins wrote:Who listens to Robert's eleven glissandos in one tune on a recording?

My impression is that tens of thousands of people (and perhaps substantially more) do.

Sid Hudson · Post by **Sid Hudson** » 10 Dec 2012 9:18 am

I love the old music of the Steel Guitar. That's what I play.
That's all I play.

If the Steel Guitar is to survive and move to the next era as the electric guitar has always done, new approaches will have to be developed.

Like him or not; Robert Randolph has become wildly successful. I'm not suggesting that we all start copying Robert.

I'm just saying-----here is just one example of a different approach to the instrument.

I'm old, but I get great enjoyment out of something different.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt5BVuIv4t8

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 10 Dec 2012 9:26 am

Rick Collins wrote:My $.02 worth:

Stand-up console steel guitar has a better chance of becoming mainstream than the pedal steel.
But, it must be new up-scale Hawaiian style.
Hawaiian can be revived; but there must be new tunes with new lyrics.
It must be done by an attractive group with a new gimick.
Today, even when Hawaiian players play slow songs they play them too slow.

Jazz players and players like Robert Randolph won't do it __ these styles are better played on six string standard electrics, piano, and horns.

Who listens to Robert's eleven glissandos in one tune on a recording? ...boring, boring!

Pretty much disagree with everything you posted except the part about non-pedal vs. pedal. I do believe the non-pedal has a brighter future in other genres, although I don't necessarily wish for that--I like both instruments.

Wayne Quinn · Post by **Wayne Quinn** » 10 Dec 2012 9:50 am

Zane,you know the earlier years when people listen to Buddy.they all said [Wow] then they listen to Lloyd and they said .Awesome] then they listen to Zane King.and say .no.nobody can play that fast or that smooth.and every one loved pedal steel guitar.then i got to play.and steel guitar went down hill from there. $:\$

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 10 Dec 2012 9:53 am

i really dont think this is all that different from other genres / instruments over the last 20 years. instrumental recordings have never really sold well at release - its often years before they recoup the investment. even jazz recordings are hard to sell in the US - - thats why so many tour Europe & Japan - thats the only place they can make money.

although its arguably cheaper now to record with personal studios, the problem is still the distribution channel and that has vanished. gone are the days when the sidemen cut an LP and sold them at shows beside the artist to make some extra money. you just dont have that any longer. really, the steel shows are the last tourniquet to stop the bleeding....but look around at the demographics of a steel show. Also, it may just be looking back at the past nostalgically - even back in the heyday, one could use Scotty's convention as a guide - the only times the room was packed with people lining the walls was during Jerry Byrd's and Buddy Emmons' sets.

I sort of ruffled some feathers a while back for mentioning this, but the sacred music genre is one of the only ones where the artists can make a living. this is IMO due to churches becoming more entertainment complex driven to attract younger members. i've noticed at my parents traditional church, the congregation slowing dying off and nobody new comes in, while the mega-churches seem to double every year. they hold shows, movies, have sports teams, go on bus tours, very strong youth ministries, daycare, schools, etc. sort of reminds me of the pedal steel situation. the young people are going to where the entertainment value is more rewarding - let me say, there is nothing more boring than a bland hotel convention room with hard lighting** and endless versions of slow instrumental ballads to run off all but the most hard core..and even then...
(**i thought that the non-pedal room at last years TSGA did a WONDERFUL job of turning the room into a great listening experience with just some backdrop blocking and proper "mood' lighting)

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 10 Dec 2012 10:53 am

i've noticed at my parents traditional church, the congregation slowing dying off and nobody new comes in, while the mega-churches seem to double every year. they hold shows, movies, have sports teams, go on bus tours, daycare, schools, etc.

Religion as entertainment - what a concept. WWJD

$:\$

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 10 Dec 2012 10:59 am

To further Jerome's point, I actually think we are confusing the fate of instrumental music and that of the pedal steel. If you look at the Billboard charts in the 50s or 60s, there was always at least a few instrumentals in any given year.
Just in 1961, random examples: The Magnificient Seven, Riders in the Sky, Wheels, Calcutta, Last Night, Exodus, Yellow Bird, Take Five, Mexico. That's just one year, and I didn't do any extensive research. I'm sure there were more.

Can you name any instrumental that has charted recently? I remember Herbie Hancock's "rock it" and Dragnet by the Art of Noise... and those where in the friggin' 80s!!! Instrumental music has vanished from the charts and is now a specialty thing, like Joe Satriani and Steve Vai for guitarists, basically musicians who want to see Olympian-style performances, a.k.a. shredders.

But is the pedal steel doing so bad? Jack White had a pedal steel on SNL. Ray Lamontagne is on late night shows with a steeler. What about Bon Iver with Greg Leisz? These are all massively successfull artists. My personal experience is that people love the pedal steel. They often know nothing about it, but as soon as the gig starts they all whisper to one another "what the hell is this thing?" and they are hooked for the rest of the evening. I play with singer-songwriters who are thrilled to have me in the band because I bring something different to the table. In 20 years as a guitarist (a VERY proficient one I might add), I never had the response I now get as a half-competent pedal steeler. For me, the future is quite bright for this instrument, as long as we avoid self-indulgence. It's not accessible like other instruments, but I'm confident every generation will have a few people that are crazy enough to take it up. Keep this forum going and make affordable instruments and the pedal steel will be fine.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 10 Dec 2012 11:01 am

Jim Cohen wrote:
Rick Collins wrote:Who listens to Robert's eleven glissandos in one tune on a recording?
My impression is that tens of thousands of people (and perhaps substantially more) do.

It's gonna' take millions, Jim.

Sid Hudson · Post by **Sid Hudson** » 10 Dec 2012 12:01 pm

Here is a different approach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOSiNrgH ... e=youtu.be

Mark Carlisle · Post by **Mark Carlisle** » 10 Dec 2012 12:15 pm

"Most instrumental records are jazz and let's face it: not many steel players can play jazz, especially at the level of other jazz musicians."

Virtuoso playing is interesting to aspiring virtuosos. I recall attending a rare solo show at the Jazz Bakery by Jimmy Bruno, who I took some lessons from. 20 people at the show. Jimmy asked over the mike "how many here tonight are guitar players?" 15 raised hands. As much as I love his playing, I seldom listen to a CD of his unless I'm trying to cop a lick. Same narrow niche for Gypsy jazz players-Jimmy Rosenberg or Birelli Lagrene can set a Selmer on fire, but after a while it's "too many notes Herr Mozart"
The connection here is that many PSG instrumental recordings are basic I-IV-V songs that have nowhere the medlodic content or interesting changes of let's say "Joy Spring". No matter how many fireworks are put in "Four Wheel Drive" the basic melody and structure don't compare.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 10 Dec 2012 1:23 pm

Zane I’ll just come right to the point.

There are plenty of great steel players out there to replace the old masters. In fact bar has been raised so high that there are some much better than the old masters.

So many in fact there are too many as evidenced by the lack of positions for the number of great players.

There is no problem with the PSGs popularity. It is what it is.

You fail to except like most Steel players that what you do is not some earth shaking event and the PSG is not the mystic reincarnation of beautiful music.

You could be the best ever steel player and play the latest and greatest PSG manufactured but in the world view you would draw far less attention than the Tiddlywinks champion of Albuquerque New Mexico.

It appears you chose PSG as your career and as good as you are like most you had unrealistic expectations of Steel Guitar in general as claim to fame.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 10 Dec 2012 1:33 pm

Rick Collins wrote:
Jim Cohen wrote:
Rick Collins wrote:Who listens to Robert's eleven glissandos in one tune on a recording?
My impression is that tens of thousands of people (and perhaps substantially more) do.
It's gonna' take millions, Jim.

It could well be millions by now. He has appeared on every late night talk show, toured for a year with Eric Clapton and, I think, been nominated for a Grammy.

Zane King · Post by **Zane King** » 10 Dec 2012 1:36 pm

Thanks Stuart for your comments. I agree with all of them with the exception that I chose PSG as my career. That is not the case for me whatsoever. However, if I did want to make an income from PSG I believe that I could.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 10 Dec 2012 1:38 pm

Why do you say this, David? Surely you are as aware as I am of the many steelers who offer instruction, both online and in-person (not to mention in print, DVD courses, massive YouTube series like Mickey Adams', seminars at steel conventions, etc.) Why do you dismiss all of that as "no one teaches"?

- Jim Cohen

Urp. Umm, what I think I meant to say was, not one of the people who are bitching about no youngsters picking up the steel guitar are teaching... I must've run out of room. But still... has anyone attempted to take up the mantle left by Jeff Newman? An actual school... I love my computer, it has actually created free time for me specifically because I don't have to chase work all over the place, it come beeping in over the portal.... but I'm not sure that the music education it gives you, and the process of it, establishes that... magical? elitist? cult-ish insider cool-guy feeling you get from learning from "real people." Now I know that if you really "want it" you can go out and "get it" but for many, many, many people, computer learning may not fill the emotional and mental needs in terms of being offered the secret Keys to the Kingdom. By the wizened old wizards...

I've been thinking about this a bit. Given that there are (apparently successful?) rock and roll "fantasy" camps, where you spend a week or even just a long weekend learning enough barre chords so that at the thrilling finish you get to stand on stage as Roger Daltrey croaks out the "YEAAAAH! Won't get fooled again!" part* - what would be the odds of a two-week summertime master class, taught in Nashville, by Buddy Emmons, Doug Jernigan, Paul Franklin, Zane King, umm, whoever else could be scraped up? There's a lot of talent baking out there on the golf course... If the tuition money from us guys is there - not guaranteed, but you'd never know without asking - a bit of momentum could go a long way. Sponsored scholarships? And beside the nuts 'n' bolts of steel guitar (publish the class listening list two months ahead) surely someone could teach the course "Everything you can't learn at Berklee, because they don't KNOW it."

And I hate to say it, but you would want to hit up Bravo or CMT or somebody to tape it for the goombox, hit them up for a pretty penny because they'd be looking to twist it into the comic, old fogey version of Honey Boo Bear or whatever that fat little monstrosity is called. Open the doors just a little bit more inclusively, to "Country Music College", and Fender & Gibson would fight over who gets to sponsor it - as long as both companies insist on squandering huge amounts of cash for no apparent reason, might as well hike up your skirts and catch a splash of it. And to (vaguely) return to Mr Cohen's** point that "everybody teaches!", the canon could benefit greatly if there was any sort of unity-in-direction whatsoever, as it's very, very difficult to find out which course could help who with what right now. Except they're all great! - and most of it was written in 1972.

*(I sure hope they use a tape. Poor old Roger...)
**(Got Tele?)

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 10 Dec 2012 2:02 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:
Rick Collins wrote:
Who listens to Robert's eleven glissandos in one tune on a recording?

My impression is that tens of thousands of people (and perhaps substantially more) do.

It's gonna' take millions, Jim. Wink

That was "per gig"!

h

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 10 Dec 2012 2:02 pm

David - steel guitar boot camp? Been there, done that.

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pu ... gsc.page=1

Zane King · Post by **Zane King** » 10 Dec 2012 2:41 pm

I'm still reading through comments but it hits me as I scan these that AT LEAST WE DON'T PLAY BASS GUITARS!!!! I mean that bass playing Buddy Emmons did with Roger Miller! That's what we love most about him right?

My point is that those of us who have spent so much time learning how to play these musical bicycles have a lot to be thankful for. We can actually make outstanding instrumental music with them. It's truly an advantage in my opinion. I don't mean to criticize any of the above comments but this thread is about Steel Guitar players being Musical Artists. I see a lot of comments (as I see on many other threads) about the overall growth and interest in playing pedal steel. My point to this topic was not to talk about the cost of steel guitars, teaching methods or the lack thereof, nor even the appeal of steel guitar or not in various musical genres especially the age old traditional vs. new country argument. I can see where that is all relevant to my topic but I wish to redirect us here to some degree.

I just wish there was more of a market for steel guitar instrumental music. It's that simple really. That's what I was talking about in my original post. Perhaps, I should have stated it more direct. I think at one point there was obviously a fairly good market for it because I have records (LPs) that date back into the 60s of great steel guitar masters! There was a plethora of them during that 25 year or so time period on the dawn of the pedal steel guitar. Now where are we....You Tube. While it is a great tool. It likely is robbing many would be records to even be created. Something to consider anyway.

I'll be back with more comments on the above. AND THANKS A TON FOR COMMENTING! I like this dialogue!!!

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 10 Dec 2012 2:58 pm

Instrumental music, in general, is not as popular as it was in the 50s, 60, and 70s. Back in the day we heard a lot of instrumentals on pop radio... Sleep Walk, Wipeout, Tequila, The Last Date, Telstar, Rebel Rouser, Hawaii Five-O, Stranger on the Shore, Walk Don't Run, Apache, Green Onions... all hit records. We're in a different era now...

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 10 Dec 2012 2:59 pm

Do we refer to John Coltrane as "saxophone music" or Bill Frisell as "guitar music"? No, it's music, period.

Maybe instrumental pedal steel music has no appeal outside this community (and even then) because all the emphasis is on the pedal steel and not on the overall quality of the music. Look at what Chris Thile is doing with the Punch Bros. Two things off the top of my head:

- focus on songwriting or covering CONTEMPORARY material such as Radiohead;

-having a group where all the musicians are gifted and featured equally rather than mandolin on top of band-in-a-box tracks, etc.

Look at Greg Leisz playing with Frisell, it's instrumental music and it features pedal steel and it's plenty artistic and creative.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 10 Dec 2012 3:02 pm

Different sounds appeal to different generations. There was a time when Brass was a hot popular sound in popular music: Think Herb Alpert, or Chicago, or Blood Sweat and Tears, or Tower of Power..

Name me a popular group today that features Brass. Will Brass come back? maybe, probably not.

At one time mandolin was the most popular instrument in the country. At one time Hawaiian music was the most popular music in the country. For what ever reason, and there are a number of reasons, certain sounds and instruments were more popular than they were later.

these days, most popular music is synth and drum machine driven. I don't see pedal steel ever being a popular instrument, as in popular music, but it will always find a niche audience.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 10 Dec 2012 3:04 pm

"Look at Greg Leisz playing with Frisell, it's instrumental music and it features pedal steel "

I thought Greg played straight steel, not pedal. At least the recordings I'm familiar with have him playing lap steel.

Alex Cattaneo · Post by **Alex Cattaneo** » 10 Dec 2012 3:15 pm

He plays a Williams S12 ext 9th on most of the pieces he does with Frisell. Plays other things like lap and Weissenborn and all, but check out any of the threads about him on the Forum and you'll find he's a very accomplished pedal steel player.

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There Are NO Fans Of Steel Guitar Music

There Are No Fans Of Steel Guitar Music