The Steel Guitar Forum

When does music become a noise? the same rationale as -when does a flower become a weed? Need more be asked or said?

Rich Gardner wrote:When I was 18 or so and Jimi Hendrix was THE guitar player of all guitar players, I thought he was the greatest. Today his music is just noise to me. I guess nothing lasts forever. Today I like tunes by Jerry Byrd, Buddy Emmons, Les Paul and Lou Pallo. What can I say?

Congratss Rich... You have discovered melody. Now you know that music can be pretty and evoke a mental state. Not just frantic and extremely loud. JMHO

Dave Hepworth wrote:When does music become a noise? the same rationale as -when does a flower become a weed? Need more be asked or said?

Some of us like weeds just fine.

Do you hear melody in these Schoenberg piano pieces?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rphq-GRd02w

When I first bought the CD of Pollini playing them years ago, my first thought was "what the...?" After about a week of listening, I was practically singing along with it.

Ray Montee wrote:
How does a player recognize his/her level of playing?

It's definetely not one of the most importat things steel playing is about, but being able to pick something fast, like OBS is a sign that you're good. But I can also appreciate players who can't, but play with taste.

Phew... that comment from Rich about Jimmi Hendrix? I sure don't believe that songs like "Drifting" or "Angel" are noise.

When does 'music' ...............become noise?

According to my good buddy, the late Ben Brogden, it is when you add a BAD Drummer.

music: "an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color."

No where does it mention ear splitting levels nor bass levels that can be heard blocks away.

Is it music as defined above, I suppose so. Is it enjoyable, not to these ears. Ok, so my years are showing.

Thankfully the classics of the past stand no chance of being upstaged by today's current choices.

I still love his music and am more amazed by it now than when it came out. One of our great (and last, IMHO) innovators.

Bill, your exalted opinion of Hendrix is noted, however, to suggest that he or anyone else is one of our last innovators is nonsense. Unless you are clairvoyant, of course….

Derek Bailey and the Shaking Ray Levis. Not my cup of tea, but they have fans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm2hAFAZayk

Mike Cass wrote:...the same is also good for ego reduction.

I love it. Maybe what the steel guitar needs is an Ego Reduction Pedal.

Do you hear melody in these Schoenberg piano pieces?

With 12-tone "set techniques", there is no heirarchy of pitch, like there is in 8-tone harmony. You could think if it as a melody of intervals.

This may sound strange coming from a drummer, but music, any music, becomes noise to me when it gets so loud that I can't distinguish or separate things. At that point it is all just a huge noise. This may not be what you are looking for, but since so many opinions are being tossed around, that's mine.

All music becomes noise when you're talking.

"to suggest that he or anyone else is one of our last innovators is nonsense. Unless you are clairvoyant, of course…."

I meant last in that he was the last one we had, not that no one will come along in the future.

Bill McCloskey wrote:...I meant last in that he was the last one we had, not that no one will come along in the future.

This could be a problem in regional word usage. I've found that while I was living in England, they used "last" to refer to the "most recent", whilst here in California they tend to use "last" to refer to the "final case". As an Englishman living in the U.S. I have to be very careful how I phrase things, or I can be misunderstood. I was once told that the "Southern Pacific had an awful reputation for punctuality", which I took to be a recommentdation. Unfortunately, "awful" has changed its meaning in many parts of the world, no longer meaning "full of awe". Since the word now has two opposite meanings, it's best to use "awesome" to mean "full of awe" and avoid using "awful" completely.

When you came over here to the states Alan, did you ever telephone a young lady for conversation? What did you 'call that' act? Wasn't that something like
'ringing her up?'

Going one step further in our language usage....
when you ultimately desired to visit that same young lady, what words did you use to describe 'that act?'
Perhaps, "I'll drop by an............."

I (fortunately) had a very ear-opening experience in high school when a music teacher played us a composition by Tod Dockstader he had made of assembled tiny bits of recordings on tape of various machines, nature sounds, and "noises" that, assembled, made a truly beautiful composition. I remember really re-thinking the concepts of "music" and "instrumentation". It certainly is to some degree "in the ear of the beholder". Or beer holder... Seems a bit egocentric to dismiss as "noise" anything that doesn't fit one's own box. I have come to appreciate many forms of music I didn't care for at first exposure.

As for recognizing your own "level" or accomplishment, there are many yardsticks one can use. In my early days playing, when I felt I was kind of butchering the beauty I knew could be heard from a steel guitar, I decided to stick with it on the chance that my playing might one day move someone the way Emmons, Hughey, and other players moved me when I was starting out. Thankfully, over time I've heard from many people that my playing has moved or touched them, and to me that's far more important than how fast I can play or how much money I make. Good thing on that last one!

even with good players it becomes noise when you have to push the volume to just hear yourself.

Noise is sound that is unpleasant or undesired. As such, it is subjective - dependent on the listener's threshold for "ugly" sounds.

I can't listen to some kinds of music when Mrs. Lee is in the car, because to her it is noise. When I am alone, my musical selections are more varied.

Speaking of John Cage, this is the 100th anniversary of his birth. NPR is doing a special tribute: http://www.npr.org/2012/09/05/160618202 ... age-at-100

Back in 1973, when I was in school, I had the good fortune to participate in a 2 week seminar with John Cage, although I mostly just followed him around like a star-struck fool.

I did as well in the mid 70's when he came to my school for a few weeks. My teacher, who recently died - Bill Duckworth - convinced him to conduct a piece based on the drawings of Thoreau and I was in the orchestra and got to hang out with him for a while. Changed my life.

Ray Montee wrote:When you came over here to the states Alan, did you ever telephone a young lady for conversation? What did you 'call that' act? Wasn't that something like 'ringing her up'?
Going one step further in our language usage....
when you ultimately desired to visit that same young lady, what words did you use to describe 'that act?'
Perhaps, "I'll drop by an............."

Actually, Ray, before I moved over I had long telephone conversations with my fiancee in Nebraska.
Yes, I "rang her up" many times. My first gaff in business over here was asking a girl in the office if she had a rubber. (That's an eraser in England.) I once told someone "Keep your pecker up." (In England, your pecker is your nose, and that's a common expression meaning "Keep your head up and don't let it get you down.")

at the first strike of distortion . JDF

Rather than music turning into noise here is some noise that turned into music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLO-Yh9QDgs

It is pedalsteel solo. It was recorded live and the only effect was a tube screamer.

I have been finding that over the years I have been enjoying more and more different types of music.