The Steel Guitar Forum

There are many paths up the mountain. But you can't necessarily see one path while you're on another. Unless you're in a helicopter. In which case, what in the hell are you climbing the mountain for? Just fly to the top. And that's the way the rubber crumbles when the cookie hits the road.

I think it's a matter of opinion. I'm a n00b and I contacted "A". a highly experienced and well respected player within driving distance of me to inquire about lessons. He flat-out refused to teach me the PSG until I had a good mastery of theory - his exact word was it's "impossible" to learn to play pedal steel without knowing theory first.

I mentioned this to "B", a steel player I met out of state - also a highly accomplished player of perhaps 35 years who has toured and recorded with some big names. "B" was livid, and asked that I send him "A"'s name and e-mail contact so he could give him a piece of his mind. (I didn't do so). "B" said "it's like riding a bicycle, climb on and go".

I AM trying to master theory and believe it will help my overall knowledge of music and my learning of the steel. But I am not looking to join a band or be a professional, at this point I'm very content to spend a few hours a day in the house learning from you-tube lessons including Joe's, DVD's such as Newman's courses, and with occasional visits from a local PSG player who is pointing me in the right direction.

I don't have any ill feelings toward "A", no doubt that's the way HE learned and he probably sets a great value on a complete knowledge of music. That's fine, but to use a term someone spoke above, there seems to be more than one path to the top of the mountain. I'm having fun AND learning to play, and filling in with theory learning as I go. So far it's working just fine.

So Joe, don't lose any sleep over the comment. Your lessons are a big help to me, and to many others I'm sure. Keep them coming!

There are many many ways to learn to play an instrument. I have taught music for years, and I have seen that not everyone can learn the same way. We are all different.

That being said, the contention that learning theory and striving to become a schooled musician will somehow hurt your playing, or make you unable to be intuitive, is absurd. There are many stiff, inflexible players who can't play without reading, true, but there are just as many stiff, inflexible players who can't read, know no theory, and never grow as musicians. Both types might be great at what they know. My point is why shut yourself off, or worse yet, try to convince others that learning the theory of the subject that interests will somehow cripple you. If you don't want to know theory, great, don't learn about it. If you know theory, don't turn off your ears and your intuition - you still use those when you read music, don't you?

First of all, there’s no one correct way to learn or do ANYTHING. From learning how to play the steel guitar, to tying one’s shoelaces. There are always different ways, and different people find the one that’s right for them.

I met a guy in San Antone who could play every note to a song & never miss a note (until you took his music sheet away,then he couldn't play squat!!!)

I wish to comment about musicians like this guy who can only play by reading music. The problem is not that they know how to read. The problem is that the system, by which they were taught, is designed to reinforce the concept of master and servant.

Remember, this system was developed in Europe 400+ years ago, at the time of kings and various degrees of nobility, and servants. That society was not free. People were expected not to express their individuality, not attempt to rise above their station in life, and to be obedient at all times to those who claimed to be their superiors.

This cultural attitude has played out in many ways. Some of them tragic. Musically, it played out by creating a system whereby the musicians were not taught how to think for themselves. They were only taught how to follow orders.

By contrast, America is a free society, where people can do what they want (within reason,) and the different kinds of music that has emerged here, jazz, blues, country, swing, rock etc reflect the freedom we enjoy as a society in general, by giving the musicians the freedom to create their own music.

Be all this as it may, the European system of writing music is still a valuable tool, and learning how to read is a worthwhile skill. It’s true that it’s not required for playing country music. But if you ever hear a song that you want to and you can’t quite figure it all out, you can read it if you know how.

Case in point. Last year I played the old Frankie Avalon song “Venus” at the Phoenix show. There are some chords in the introduction that I wasn’t sure about, and one in bridge that had me completely baffled. But I looked up the sheet music, and once I saw what they were, Playing them was not a problem.

I’ve said this before. But it’s worth repeating. Reading music and playing by ear are not only not mutually exclusive, they enhance each other. Knowing how to read helps me play by ear better, and being able to play by ear makes me a better reader.

Christopher Woitach wrote:There are many many ways to learn to play an instrument. I have taught music for years, and I have seen that not everyone can learn the same way. We are all different.

That being said, the contention that learning theory and striving to become a schooled musician will somehow hurt your playing, or make you unable to be intuitive, is absurd. There are many stiff, inflexible players who can't play without reading, true, but there are just as many stiff, inflexible players who can't read, know no theory, and never grow as musicians. Both types might be great at what they know. My point is why shut yourself off, or worse yet, try to convince others that learning the theory of the subject that interests will somehow cripple you. If you don't want to know theory, great, don't learn about it. If you know theory, don't turn off your ears and your intuition - you still use those when you read music, don't you?

Christopher - I absolutely agree. In my Django diatribe, I didn't mean to imply theory isn't an important tool. Just that it's not an absolute requirement, as the commenter on Mr. Barcus's youtube stated.

Yeah - Django, Chet Baker, Wes Montgomery... There are tons of amazing players who don't know theory. If I had to choose between a good ear with good intuition and a huge knowlage of theory, I'd pick the ear. Good news, though, you don't have to choose.

Just delete the comment and forget it.
YouTube has a "Delete Comment" button.

I sometimes get rude comments on my vids.
They are rare as opposed to the many good ones.

Some folks just like to "pull your chain".
Don't give it a second thought.

It appears that this part of the statement was taken from a post by Stuart Legg here on the forum. It was not stated as the only way or the only thing just a generalization of Stuart's and my way of teaching.

"The only way to learn to play is to study music first, and only after doing this, the only thing to learn, is the technique to play any instrument you choose."

This borrowed quote from Stuart was proceeded by this statement which appears to have been written by someone who copies and pastes and knows little about music or the Steel Guitar. I don't know of many folks here that use the word "Geez" except Stuart and I. That seems to have been borrowed as well.

Note the "did all the exams on pedal steel" "Can "strum" all scales in full chords." Sounds like some one who is still in Grade School.

"Geez! Strange way to learn. I studied music, did all exams on pedal steel, instead of piano, violin, guitar or clarinet. I use piano score for pedal steel, play all scales, major, minor melodic and harmonic, without moving the steel or sliding. Can "strum" all scales in full chords."

Study theory but don’t tell anyone.
Learn how to read music but don’t tell anyone.
Learn how to use tab but don’t tell anyone.
Learn to really Pick Block but don’t tell anyone.
Then after you learn how to play a little and post a sound clip or video don’t expect to get an honest opinion about your playing. I'm not making a judgement on anyone's playing here but the deal is that it’s only natural not to want to hurt someone’s feelings.

I'm still a pedal steel noob, but I'm a music school grad and I've made my living with an electric guitar for a number of years. I read music pretty well and feel that I have a pretty solid understanding of theory.
In my experience, theory is a wonderful tool for interpreting what the ear hears and, more importantly, for applying it to other situations. It's also been crucial for me as a means of streamlining communication at rehearsals, especially when they involve piano, woodwind, and brass players.
That said, I've found that a solid set of ears on the bandstand is still far and away more crucial than an in-depth knowledge of theory and reading skills, but said skills make my learning process smoother.

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."

Yogi Berra (while not a musician, I think he had a pretty good grasp on the concept!).

He also said (Jim Cohen, you paying attention?):

"Anyone who understands jazz knows you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it."

To understand more about jazz, as explained by the great Yogi Berra, go here:

http://www.apassion4jazz.net/yogi-berra.html

Doug

Yep! Everything is simple on the Forum because it has to be!!!

Hi Joe!
I just wanted to encourage you by saying, I`ve personally learned so much from your presentations. Please my old friend, dont let anyone discourage you for doing what you do sooo well. Put me down as your number one student, and great fan!
Sincerely
Bishop R.P. Hall
(Ron)