The Steel Guitar Forum

That's for the dual head. The VG50 is only $2500.

What I want to know is: How do you get 50 clean Watts out of a pair of cathode-biased 6l6gc's? Crazy-high plate voltages?

They do not state that is 60 watts RMS wattage. Could be peak power. 30 watts is the max plate dissipation of a single 6L6GC. The closet amp I have seen to get that power out of a 6L6GC was the 135 watt Twins, which would actually put out a clean 100 watts RMS at no distortion. Some Musicman amps did a good job with over 600 volts on the plates as well. Both were Class AB2 push pull, not cathode biased. A cathode bosed amp is alway lower wattage. For example a cathode bised Deluxe is 14 watts while a Deluve Reverb puts out 22 watts. Also a lot of amps are rated with a distortion factor, thus achieving a higher stated RMS wattage. Still, hard to hear the difference between a 30 watt and a 60 watt amp. It takes a lot more wattage to make a volume difference. It takes a 10 db SPL change in volume to double the sound we hear. From the net:

Amplifier output - It takes 2 times the power from an amp to change the volume 3dB. In other words if an amp is producing 1 watt of power it needs to increase to 2 watts of power to make a 3dB change. This is a ratio of 2:1. By the same token if the amp is producing 50 watts of power it will need to increase to 100 watts to produce a 3dB change. 100 watts would take 200 watts for that same change.

How much power would it take to Increase the SPL 10dB? It will take 10 times the power to increase the SPL by 10dB! In other words, if your amp was producing 50 watts of power you would need to increase it to 500 watts to achieve a 10dB increase. (fig A&B) As you can see it takes a lot of power to get a small increase in volume.

Thanks Ken!

Ken Fox wrote:.. if your amp was producing 50 watts of power you would need to increase it to 500 watts to achieve a 10dB increase.

Easy; just buy 10 Little Walter amps.

Steve Lipsey wrote:.. I gig a lot, and it is 100% reliable..

That is great. I had thought that boutique amps were not generally renowned for their reliability.

I like Guiness, but not for it's reliability or market value. I enjoy it for me. Same thing for boutique amps ( I have a few)- I enjoy them for how they feel & sound when I play them - and because I can.
That said, I am not a snob about it. I play the "good ones" on certain gigs and drag the Nashville 400/Deluxe Reverb types out on the funkier gigs. They are tools and I use them where it is indicated. One thing is for sure .... a single loud drummer can drown out about $234,000 worth of boutique tone. For those gigs I bring the Stereo Steel and pin his ears to the wall!!
I wonder how much a 500 watt Little Walter would cost?

Now if I can just get a Milkman & a Little Walter for my collection.....

Jim

Matthew Dawson wrote:What I want to know is: How do you get 50 clean Watts out of a pair of cathode-biased 6l6gc's? Crazy-high plate voltages?

I'd assume crazy-high plate voltages. Because based on normal amp math, it should be more like 35 watts.


B

I didnt think to much about a tube amp much less
50 watts UNTILL I went and played through one myself... then I heard the little walter and I saw
what all the hoppla was about
It is an awesome amp.. and plenty of power
it has that tone...
you wont understand the amp or the price untill you hear it your self
so good luck and try to give it a listen
dont cost anything to hear one....
Mike

Hey Tim, I have been trying to send you a PM on a price but don't know if it is going through.

Thanks, Gary

Hey Mike, thanks for the comment. It looks like you may be the only person on this thread who has any idea what the amp sounds like. The high quality of materials that is used in the amps makes the cost what it does. I personally know Phil Bradbury and have been to his shop many times to pickup products or to just test different speakers or new things he is working on. He does not over charge for the product,but tries hard to keep prices as low as possible. They are not like anything I had ever played through before, and I didn't know if I liked it the first played through it. Now I know I don't like anything else. We know Little Walter amps aren't for everyone, but if you are looking for something that is very clean and will play every note on the lowest C6 to the highest E9 this is it. I'm not trying to be smart but the thread asked about little walter owners and I didn't see any. Hopefully some will comment.

Gary

I agree with Tim's comment that much of the difference between a 'high end' amp is in the feel. However I will say that I thought that Paul Franklin sounds significantly different (and better) live through his Little Walter compared to the other setups I have heard him play through (I've heard him through at least 3 other setups in the last decade).

In terms of stage volume, my philosophy is that you choose your amp based on how it sounds. There are a lot of ways to get louder: if miking doesn't work and you need to get stupid loud on stage, then just use something like the TC Furlong powered cab.

Thanks Brad. That's what I thought.

For what it's worth, little walter amps use Hammond transformers. Not very high quality iron - and they do not advertise what else they use in there. There are no pictures of the interior of the amps. They are a mystery to me, because I use Mercury, Jupiter, and old stock resistors and mica caps and my amp is still cheaper watt for watt and comes with a SICA 350W speaker and reverb and tone controls. I'm really curious to see what is inside a LW - I have a feeling that the bulk of their cost is in the fancy cabinets and celebrity endorsements.

Sorry to go there, but it's been bugging me for a while. If you are going to charge top dollar - at least show what is in the inside because every other boutique builder does.

Anyone know or can any of the Little Walter owners tell us what the tube compliment is? "Octal preamp tubes" is a little vague.

Review here and other places shows some pics and tube complement:

http://www.littlewaltertubeamps.com/page33.html


Greg

I got to play thru one of the "50 watt" models recently, and it was downright fantastic sounding.

B

I am confused. That website says it is a 15 watt amp. Are you sure that is the same amp? I think that is the 2x6v6 model not the "50 watt" model.

http://www.rwbmusic.net/

Scroll down on the above link for a picture showing the transformers and tubes. 6SC7 into at 6SL7 or 6SN7 PI? 5U4 rectifier? Looks like a blackface Bassman replacement output transformer.

those reviews still do not show capacitors, resistors wire and stuff like that. Actually, they appear to be deliberately missing in the one shot on the bench. All we can see is the Hammond iron which is rare in a boutique amp.

anyone else think this is weird? You can go to Kens site and see the inside of an amp, my site, Allen, Headstrong, Marsh... the list goes on and on.

Its like shopping for a car - you want to see the engine and do a little more than kick the tires and ask who else drives it.

the more they cost, the less we tell-----howard dumble.

chris ivey wrote:the more they cost, the less we tell-----howard dumble.

of course! all you need to do is buy one to see whats in there

Tim Marcus wrote:I'm really curious to see what is inside a LW - I have a feeling that the bulk of their cost is in the fancy cabinets and celebrity endorsements.

FYI-I am pretty sure that Phil isn't giving any amps away, so the 'celebrity endorsements' aren't going to add to the cost.

In terms of the quality of the components, I'm of the opinion that the worth of an amp is more than the sum of its parts. For example, one of my all time favorite rock and roll amps (the THD BiValve) uses PCBs in some areas of amp construction, which will cause some 'point to point' purists to gasp with horror.

Based on this old Bassman, per some comments I found on the net. A cheap and easy amp to build. Still mighty hard to get more than about 25 -30 watts RMS out of a cathode biased 6L6GC amp. This was a common amp design used by National Dobro and several others back in the day. I have a 1952 Gibson GA-75 that is very similar and I love the tone for my Tele.

Ken not cheap - "inexpensive" - big difference