E13 Tuning
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
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Landon Roberson
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Zane I have a couple of questions about this tuning. I have a GFI Ultra SD10 what would I have to do to use this tuning on my steel just retune the strings or are there other adjustments I would have to make? If retuning the strings is all I need to do can you tell me what I need to tune the strings, pedals and levers to. What advantage will I get using this tuning compared to the standard E9 tuning that I am using now (Jeff Newman E9). I play at church on the congragational hymns and sometimes on the special. Thanks, Landon.
My Rig: GFI Ultra SD-10, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Roland 80XL amp.
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Dave Grothusen
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Hans Penner
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Comparing the copedents on my Stage One with Zane's, I see that to switch to Zane's, the pedals need to pull different strings.
How difficult is it to make this kind of change?
Landon, is this the kind of info you also wanted?
How difficult is it to make this kind of change?
Landon, is this the kind of info you also wanted?
At long last, July 14, 2011 and I have a musical instrument I CAN play.
Stage One, Nashville 112, Hilton pedal, Black Box
Stage One, Nashville 112, Hilton pedal, Black Box
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Tony Dingus
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- Location: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
Landon and Hans, you have to move your strings in a different order than the E9 tuning. You'll have to move some of the belcranks which is not hard just make notes of which hole the pull rods are going thru on the changer and belcrank. Zane has his tuning posted in another thread. I'll find it and post it here.
Tony
Tony
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Tony Dingus
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Steven Finley
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Red rhodes used a E b 6th tuneing on his
fender 800, on his zb d10 sierra d10 and dekley d10
he had E b 6th on the outside neck and a diatonic
tuneing on the inside neck, on his emci single 10
he also used E b 6th, I guess its similar to e13th,
and I might mention that on Reds fender 800 he
installed a zb pickup,and a homemade keyless tuner.
fender 800, on his zb d10 sierra d10 and dekley d10
he had E b 6th on the outside neck and a diatonic
tuneing on the inside neck, on his emci single 10
he also used E b 6th, I guess its similar to e13th,
and I might mention that on Reds fender 800 he
installed a zb pickup,and a homemade keyless tuner.
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Jay Jessup
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- Location: Charlottesville, VA, USA
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Jay Jessup
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- Location: Charlottesville, VA, USA
I have never had a problem with double posting before, wonder if using the preview button is causing this---sorry.
Last edited by Jay Jessup on 21 Feb 2012 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jay Jessup
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- Location: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Hans, You cannot switch your Stage One to this tuning as the bell cranks are welded to the cross shafts so you would not easily be able to move them to be aligned with the new positions required by the E13 or E6/9 tunings.
Landon, If you are a just getting started on steel but have prior musical experience in other areas Zane's tuning may make more sense than standard E9. Be aware that if you are relying on currently published courses and tablature to learn from you will have to perform some mental gymnastics to transpose what is written to this style of tuning but the notes and changes are all there and I believe Zane, in an older thread, alluded to doing some of this in his early days of playing.
Jerry, As far as what you call this tuning, as Zane (correctly I believe) alluded to earlier in this thread, his tuning and yours without a dominant 7'th (D Note) included should be called a E 6/9. I use the Zane Beck version of this tuning which I have been calling E 6/9 which is incorrect since it does have the D in it I should have been calling it E13.
Note to all I have no music school training so please correct me if I am wrong.
Landon, If you are a just getting started on steel but have prior musical experience in other areas Zane's tuning may make more sense than standard E9. Be aware that if you are relying on currently published courses and tablature to learn from you will have to perform some mental gymnastics to transpose what is written to this style of tuning but the notes and changes are all there and I believe Zane, in an older thread, alluded to doing some of this in his early days of playing.
Jerry, As far as what you call this tuning, as Zane (correctly I believe) alluded to earlier in this thread, his tuning and yours without a dominant 7'th (D Note) included should be called a E 6/9. I use the Zane Beck version of this tuning which I have been calling E 6/9 which is incorrect since it does have the D in it I should have been calling it E13.
Note to all I have no music school training so please correct me if I am wrong.
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Landon Roberson
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Don Zeitler
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- Location: Michigan, USA
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Hi Landon,
I'm looking into this because I play E13 on lap steel and dobro. I tend to be more blues & swing oriented and if I could cmbine the E13 with my pedal steel E9 I think I could get the best of both worlds. The swing and the more country sounds all on one guitar. I hope this helps you out.
Ziggie
I'm looking into this because I play E13 on lap steel and dobro. I tend to be more blues & swing oriented and if I could cmbine the E13 with my pedal steel E9 I think I could get the best of both worlds. The swing and the more country sounds all on one guitar. I hope this helps you out.
Ziggie
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J D Sauser
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Speedy West, Zane Beck, Buddy Emmons(!) and many non-pedal
Speedy West wound up keeping two tunings:
A simple version of E9th (on which he played the melody of Speedin' West, btw) and his erroneously as "F#9th" labeled version of a pedaled E13th.
His top "B" string was lowered to Bb in open position, which he pulled pulled up to B with his most used pedal. The origins would most probably be the crude mechanics of the first PSG he created this tuning on, which would more easily raise than lower.
Had he had a PSG with today's capabilities, he could easily have combined both, a modern version of E9th AND his E13th onto ONE neck.
Some of his changes are reflected in Zane Beck's much more modern tuning and also Buddy Emmons' experimentations on a S-12 Carter E13th.
I have a S12 with E13th/B6 Universal with 8pedals and 6 levers. I haven't plaid it much since I arranged it, but in open it is very similar to Zane Beck's E13th, just that I concentrated on adding Speedy's changes and keeping my B6th (universal) changes too and all the E9th stuff obviously without going to a Day-setup as ZB did.
EASY! But the bar crashing (bhooowhah, swobosh, brawoom-stuff) is somewhat thwarted by the excessive number of stings. I am inclined to arrange an S-8 with for that type of music specifically for that very reason.
What does E13th bring over E9th?
ONE string and YOU ALL already have it: the top C#. YOU DO have it on your second string D# with the lever which lowers it down two halves to a unison with the A-pedal raised 5th string. Some have tuned it down to C# open and raise it back to D and D# subsequently. A valid option, at least to explore and it take the string inside out. Yet again, for bar crashes you may want to have it INSIDE between B and E. Just experiment with it, include it in your chord work, add the B-to-Bb-lower... have fun with it and discover that that string can do much more than just scare people with the unison effect!
What are the changes?
Really only one or two more than you already have on E9th.
So, on a S10 E9th you could get a swinging E13 by only adding 2 pedals. Looks good too.
Why bother?
E13th was the intricate tuning among non-pedal steel tunings. Possibly almost as intricate as B11th which was nothing else than A6th and B9th combined. Similarly, Jerry Byrd combined A7th into his straight C6th (by adding a bottom C#).
E13th was a straight single chord tuning but with 3 tension notes: the 2nd (9th), the b7th and the 6th. It creates a world more of intervals available across the strings, many more inversions of full and partial chords and a higher pitched set of jazzy chord than you would find on a modern pedaled C6th tuning which basically thrives from adding odd bass notes to the top intervals.
Much of that top -or say; higher piched- swingyness can be well heard in Speedy's as well as Zane Beck's playing.
I like it, some apparently don't.
... J-D.
A simple version of E9th (on which he played the melody of Speedin' West, btw) and his erroneously as "F#9th" labeled version of a pedaled E13th.
His top "B" string was lowered to Bb in open position, which he pulled pulled up to B with his most used pedal. The origins would most probably be the crude mechanics of the first PSG he created this tuning on, which would more easily raise than lower.
Had he had a PSG with today's capabilities, he could easily have combined both, a modern version of E9th AND his E13th onto ONE neck.
Some of his changes are reflected in Zane Beck's much more modern tuning and also Buddy Emmons' experimentations on a S-12 Carter E13th.
I have a S12 with E13th/B6 Universal with 8pedals and 6 levers. I haven't plaid it much since I arranged it, but in open it is very similar to Zane Beck's E13th, just that I concentrated on adding Speedy's changes and keeping my B6th (universal) changes too and all the E9th stuff obviously without going to a Day-setup as ZB did.
EASY! But the bar crashing (bhooowhah, swobosh, brawoom-stuff) is somewhat thwarted by the excessive number of stings. I am inclined to arrange an S-8 with for that type of music specifically for that very reason.
What does E13th bring over E9th?
ONE string and YOU ALL already have it: the top C#. YOU DO have it on your second string D# with the lever which lowers it down two halves to a unison with the A-pedal raised 5th string. Some have tuned it down to C# open and raise it back to D and D# subsequently. A valid option, at least to explore and it take the string inside out. Yet again, for bar crashes you may want to have it INSIDE between B and E. Just experiment with it, include it in your chord work, add the B-to-Bb-lower... have fun with it and discover that that string can do much more than just scare people with the unison effect!
What are the changes?
Really only one or two more than you already have on E9th.
So, on a S10 E9th you could get a swinging E13 by only adding 2 pedals. Looks good too.
Why bother?
E13th was the intricate tuning among non-pedal steel tunings. Possibly almost as intricate as B11th which was nothing else than A6th and B9th combined. Similarly, Jerry Byrd combined A7th into his straight C6th (by adding a bottom C#).
E13th was a straight single chord tuning but with 3 tension notes: the 2nd (9th), the b7th and the 6th. It creates a world more of intervals available across the strings, many more inversions of full and partial chords and a higher pitched set of jazzy chord than you would find on a modern pedaled C6th tuning which basically thrives from adding odd bass notes to the top intervals.
Much of that top -or say; higher piched- swingyness can be well heard in Speedy's as well as Zane Beck's playing.
I like it, some apparently don't.
... J-D.
__________________________________________________________
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it.
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it.
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Don Zeitler
- Posts: 33
- Joined: 12 Jun 2009 12:42 pm
- Location: Michigan, USA
- Contact:
Hey JD,
I feel that there is something that makes things flow a whole lot nicer with the C# between the B and E when playing swing and blues. Also I feel that I can get some nicer chord changes with my slants that way.Of course maybe it just feels better that way for me personally. But we are all different in the way we want to approach and hear things also. I guess that's what makes it so interesting. Our limitation is our own imagination.
Zig
I feel that there is something that makes things flow a whole lot nicer with the C# between the B and E when playing swing and blues. Also I feel that I can get some nicer chord changes with my slants that way.Of course maybe it just feels better that way for me personally. But we are all different in the way we want to approach and hear things also. I guess that's what makes it so interesting. Our limitation is our own imagination.
Zig
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Paul Redmond
- Posts: 1153
- Joined: 3 Apr 2006 12:01 am
- Location: Illinois, USA
For nearly a decade now I have been using an E9/B6 with the two bass strings omitted....10-strings!!! I use a lock to hold string #7 in F#, but can release the lock to drop the string to E. It pulls to F with the "F" lever. It pulls to F# when I drop the E's. I tune my 2nd string to a D and occasionally drop it to C# on a KL.
By leaving the 7th string alone, I have a true dominant E9th tuning. When playing pedals-down, I now am able to utilize the A6th side of the E9th tuning, but taking advantage of ordinary E9th FP's and KL's. However, when I release the 7th string to E, I now have thrown the bottom 8 strings into a major mode. If I push down my splits, I'm still in a major mode. If I use the F lever with pedal #1, I'm still in a major mode. I pull my 9th string from B to D as on a full Uni setup, so I'm able to use that change to the max on both the "major" mode, or the "6th" side of the E9th tuning....that is, A6th et al. Russ Wever was at my shop some time ago, and I showed him what this tuning/copedant offers. He was quite surprised!!!
I had always split back my C# raises with the LKV, but I now use another lever to merely raise the B strings only to C. Use that KL and drop the E's, go up one fret, and you have a perfect diminished chord "on position" (with pedals down...6th mode, or major mode).
The above has been a God-send (no pun intended) when playing Gospel music...two-octave, thumb-strummed chords when needed, and the like.
PRR
By leaving the 7th string alone, I have a true dominant E9th tuning. When playing pedals-down, I now am able to utilize the A6th side of the E9th tuning, but taking advantage of ordinary E9th FP's and KL's. However, when I release the 7th string to E, I now have thrown the bottom 8 strings into a major mode. If I push down my splits, I'm still in a major mode. If I use the F lever with pedal #1, I'm still in a major mode. I pull my 9th string from B to D as on a full Uni setup, so I'm able to use that change to the max on both the "major" mode, or the "6th" side of the E9th tuning....that is, A6th et al. Russ Wever was at my shop some time ago, and I showed him what this tuning/copedant offers. He was quite surprised!!!
I had always split back my C# raises with the LKV, but I now use another lever to merely raise the B strings only to C. Use that KL and drop the E's, go up one fret, and you have a perfect diminished chord "on position" (with pedals down...6th mode, or major mode).
The above has been a God-send (no pun intended) when playing Gospel music...two-octave, thumb-strummed chords when needed, and the like.
PRR