The Steel Guitar Forum

Susan, I was very reserved in my first post. I don't like to cross other people and their opinions and that is all we have is opinions. I think it is sorta like "minor surgery". It can be minor to others but to the one that is having the surgery it is not minor. My opinion is that the guitar is too beautiful an instrument to let those cranks remain in it. It should still play good and sound good but if it were mine I would see those cracks every time I sat down at it. I don't know who should be held responsible but I don't think those cracks are "shipment damage".
Jerry

Thanks so much. I think I need to find a competent repair person. Do anyone know of any repair people that are very experienced at this type of repair?

Thanks,
Susan

Susan, I am sure there are a number of people on this forum that could repair it. I would be happy to do it but you should be able to find someone much closer to you.
Jerry

Dry wood, screw holes, not much room for wood to breath...I have seen plenty of older Steels with minor cracks, my Sho Bud Pro III had a crack in the same place. It just appeared one day.

Understanding wood is the issue , not blaming a manufacturer or shipper. This could have easily been a very slight paper thin crack without ever being noticed but when it ended up in a truck in cold weather or a severe temperature difference from a living room to a truck , the crack appeared.

I don't believe this happened from a 12 foot fall at UPS, a 12 foot fall to concrete would have created a bit more visual evidence especially on the outer box, this is an 80 pound item inside of a case or box. This is more of wood moving from one temp to another at a weak point such as a screw hole through a grain point.

I would probably pull the changer and end plate , get some wood glue and clamp it for 2 days , this is a very easy fix, time consuming , yes due to the changer and the rods, but none the less, not difficult.

My Sho-Bud had the crack, my 3 Carters had no crack.

Susan, it's a beauty, wishing you the best

t

Assuming you were either not made aware of these cracks when you purchased this guitar, or the damage was done during shipping, you have a valid claim against the seller or the shipper. First off, I would b*tch if a seller did not make me aware of this damage prior to purchase. Secondly, If damage was caused in shipping, you also have a claim. UPS is the most careless shipping company I have ever dealt with, bar none. They just dont care. I lost the whole value of a MSA Classic Double 12 thanks to UPS shipping carelessness. As one of your forum brothers stated, this will also be the very first thing you look at when you sit down at your guitar. Our guitars are much more than just a tool. Be prepared for a long drawn out affair in your fight with those responsible if you decide to pursue this further. Best of Luck in whatever you decide to do. Zeke

Tony Prior wrote:
I would probably pull the changer and end plate , get some wood glue and clamp it for 2 days , this is a very easy fix, time consuming , yes due to the changer and the rods, but none the less, not difficult.

t

i assure you that this will not work. even fabian when he was running the carter company said that they dont try to muscle this type of opening back together with wood glue. the crack cannot be opened this wide and just pulled back together and expect to stay. a hairline crack yes, but not maple that has opened up this much.

Bill Hatcher wrote:

i assure you that this will not work. even fabian when he was running the carter company said that they dont try to muscle this type of opening back together with wood glue. the crack cannot be opened this wide and just pulled back together and expect to stay. a hairline crack yes, but not maple that has opened up this much.

My comments are with the notion that she owns the guitar and cannot return it, what is she to do, throw it away ? I would facilitate the repair as the guitar cannot be sent back for a new body. And yes, of course, if the guitar can be returned for a refund that would be first choice.

If it can't, what is she to do ? With all due respect she needs a positive solution not a group of us telling her she's doomed, because she is not. A cross grained dart patch underneath the crack, glue in the seam, filler and a serious touch up on the top is what I would do, if she has no recourse of course.

Ollie Strong's Fulawka developed a crack between the changer and end of the guitar on the E9th neck about two years after he got it. It's been about 6 or 7 years now and the crack is still there and hasn't caused any problems.

Jack Stoner wrote:Ollie Strong's Fulawka developed a crack between the changer and end of the guitar on the E9th neck about two years after he got it. It's been about 6 or 7 years now and the crack is still there and hasn't caused any problems.

i bet the top plate on the fulawka is thicker than the top plate on the carter. ask him what the thickness is. the carter is 1/2" thick on the C6 side. i personally think that is too thin, but thats just my opinion.

Tony Prior wrote:


My comments are with the notion that she owns the guitar and cannot return it, what is she to do, throw it away ? I would facilitate the repair as the guitar cannot be sent back for a new body. And yes, of course, if the guitar can be returned for a refund that would be first choice.

If it can't, what is she to do ? With all due respect she needs a positive solution not a group of us telling her she's doomed, because she is not. A cross grained dart patch underneath the crack, glue in the seam, filler and a serious touch up on the top is what I would do, if she has no recourse of course.

TP i understand what you are saying. i am not telling her she is doomed. i am just countering the advice she is getting with my real life, pictures to prove it experience with these carter guitars. i dont really care what she does. she has not really leveled with us about this scenario as to who she got it from,how much it cost, who knew or didnt know that there were cracks in the guitar before or after, if the seller will take the guitar back etc. i am just giving my opinion like she asked for. this is a forum and all opinions are welcomed whether we agree with them or not. i have an opinion and the facts to back up mine. most of the others here are based on speculation.

i know you are a knowledgeable guy. would YOU keep this guitar after opening the case and seeing all these cracks if you were not advised of them when you bought it?? lets assume you paid the going price for the guitar.

i stick by what i think. i would not own this guitar. there are too many others out there just as nice with none of these issues. if she wants to keep this instrument with all the uncertainty involved in it and all of the expense to get it CORRECTLY repaired...let her do it. if she bought this guitar and was advised of the cracks beforehand then thats her deal. i hope she lands on her feet however this turns out.

Why does the guitar need to be repaired at this point in Susan's PSG experiance?? Do these cracks make it unplayable??? NO!!! Mr Hatcher you have not so subtley inferred that this guitar is unplayable and the cracks present "Issues" and "Uncertainties". What is a novice supposed to think after reading that?? Her guitar will allow her to reach a point at which she may want to purchase another guitar, but that point is years down the road. What is certain IMHO is that she probably won't be back on the forum anytime soon, and is probably in some degree of mental anguish about the situation. I'm hoping someone in FL has taken an interest and is helping her with what she needs behind the scene. Bill, I think you let your personal feelings about Carter guitars go too far.........I think this topic should be closed. And we wonder why the pro's don't post here very often anymore

i posted my experience and i posted the pictures to back it up. i didnt speculate. i didnt tell her it was going to explode while she was playing it and i did not tell her it was unplayable. you inferred that and you are wrong. i would not own this guitar. its my opinion...and i am entitled to it, and she asked for it.

and this has nothing to do with pros not posting here. where in heck did that come from?

dont wimp out and ask to close the topic. let all the info and everbodys opinion be heard.

i agree with jim. i think mr hatcher is lacking in sensitivity in this situation.

chris ivey wrote:i agree with jim. i think mr hatcher is lacking in sensitivity in this situation.

facts cut to the chase sometimes.

take up a collection and send me to sears roebuck charm school...

Bill Hatcher wrote:



TP I know you are a knowledgeable guy. would YOU keep this guitar after opening the case and seeing all these cracks if you were not advised of them when you bought it??

Well of course not if I had recourse to return it or file a damage claim..

BUT, what if I got this guitar for around $1000 ? Hxll yeah I would keep it, take it apart and facilitate a repair. At this point it has not been made clear if Susan can return this Instrument or not and my comments are totally in the "she can't" mode.

Agreed, is it worth top bucks with the cracks, no...but it is still worth bucks so someone should facilitate a repair.

t

Tony Prior wrote:
BUT, what if I got this guitar for around $1000 ?

t

yes i agree!! i will take all you can find!!..... but you are speculating that she got the guitar at this price. thats what i meant when i said she has not leveled with us on all the facts. she wanted opinions as to her situation based on virtually no facts.

i gave her my opinion based on my experience and backed it up with true facts. sorry if doing that seems "insensitive" to some......wait....no i am not sorry, because i am surely insensitive....somebody here said that, so it must be true right!

Bill,
I guarantee there is no wimp here......... But you haven't made the connection between the cracks in steel guitar bodies and playability or tone, IMHO. Here are the facts as I see them;
1. Susan owns the guitar
2. The guitar has cracks
3. The guitar is still playable
4. The guitar has diminished resale value
because of the cosmetic appearance of
the guitar

As for the comment about why pro's don't post here, it is because of posters like yourself that just keep on beating a dead horse. Your position on this matter was very clear on your first post. You just couldn't allow others to have opinions and give very experienced and workable opinions as a solution to her problem without retorting.

As far as donations for charm school......... well good luck with that

please send donations.

kind of hard to not respond when i have gone though this and have actually dealt with it and actually made this repair. how many of you that are the "sensitivity police" have??

guess i will just hope that the lady who owns this guitar at least takes into consideration my lessons learned. it really does not matter to me what she decides to do. she asked for info and opinions...unfortunately she will get both kinds.

I too have been through this exact situation!! with my Fessenden D-10

I drove 4 hours to a sellers house , LOOKED at the guitar, Played the guitar, bought it and took it home. The next day scrutinzing my new purchase I was horrified to discover the crack behind the C6 changer housing. I called the seller and he said "well I think its just cosmetic". So I put the tuner on it and compared it to my PP and it had the same cab drop, and played GREAT!!! I haven't ever been sorry I bought the guitar!!! In fact you can go to my post about Micing steel guitars and hear the guitar.

As far as donations ......weeeelll maybe ......when my string replacement fund is flush again

Like most of you, I have no dog in this hunt. There's no reason to pile on Bill for stating his experience and opinion. I would echo his advice to try for a refund unless this was disclosed prior to the transaction. The cracks look ragged to me, is the grain really that ragged?

I don't see how his remarks would be considered insensitive. MOF, if I were the offended, I'd welcome the input for trying to come up with a workable solution with the seller.

The buyer only came to us after the fact. Did not disclose the selling party, never asked for thoughts nor advice before hand and made several other posts about the guitar earlier with no mention of this condition until now.

Good try Bill. You can only offer to help, you can't force people to accept it.

Lots of good info here, but the single most helpful thing are the two photos of the crack and the repair which Bill Hatcher posted on the first page of this thread.

It clearly shows the crack develops at the hole where a wood-screw goes through the changer end-plate into the cabinet. I'm pretty sure this is what has happened on Susan's steel. (It also clearly shows the six holes in the cabinet for the screws which secure the changer.)

I also like the fix which Bill did. It's strong, neat and allows a new pilot-hole to be drilled so the wood-screw can go in as per normal.

Apart from the inconvenience of needing to remove the end-plate and changer, the hardest thing about this repair would be the cosmetics of re-finishing the cabinet surface behind the changer. I'm sure there are forum-members who can offer very good advice on how this is best achieved.