Posted: 26 May 2011 7:27 am
I agree with what Dave said.
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Rob Ickes new jazz mentorship project
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Posted: 26 May 2011 7:32 am
Me, too.
Posted: 26 May 2011 7:56 am
Seems to me that if Rob would put out some more educational materials for the folks, he could raise a lot more money than asking for it outright ? Win/win ?
Certainly not against the asking or the giving, if that's what you're inclinded to do. But guys around here, put out teaching materials for a price... They profit, and we profit from their efforts.
Certainly not against the asking or the giving, if that's what you're inclinded to do. But guys around here, put out teaching materials for a price... They profit, and we profit from their efforts.
Posted: 26 May 2011 8:03 am
I don't know if you're aware of this, but Rob created, sponsors, organizes, and teaches at the only dobro-centric educational workshop around, Reso Summit. He also has several videos available from Homespun Tapes and does one-off workshops in his travels.
I think this level of educational activity on his part adds to Dave's reasoning on this as a continuing personal growth project in the same category as we see in academia.
I think this level of educational activity on his part adds to Dave's reasoning on this as a continuing personal growth project in the same category as we see in academia.
Posted: 26 May 2011 8:23 am
I don't often change my worldview these days but after thinking about it a bit and comparing what I know from talking with the late Bernie Greenhouse about how mentorship changed his life, I agree with Dave and Orville. This has been going on in classical music for decades. So I come down on the side of inclusivity rather than exclusivity. If anyone feels otherwise, I understand and respect your decision. Whether the steel/dobro community gains anything down the road or not, I hope Rob achieves his goal.
Posted: 26 May 2011 8:49 am
Since the begining of civilation artists have relied on support from patrons to allow them the time to persue their art. This system has yielded many of the works we now call mastrepieces. At the same time many artists have been forced to suffer miserably in the persuit of their artistic vision for lack support or understanding. The same goes for those involved in scientific research and any other intelectual endevour. Rob's use of the internet to solicit financial support is, to my mind, an acceptable means to reach out to those who wish to lend a hand.
That being said I think his proposition is kind of weak or maybe he just hasn't sold me on the idea. I have little doubt that the boundaries of the resonator guitar are going to be pushed regardless of any one individuals effort. For me there is just something missing from his request, but that is between him and me.
As for the fee, $3700 is not a ton of money. If that was all that was standing between me and the realization of my artistic vision I think I could find a less shameless way of collecting the funds. I could sell a guitar, skip a vacation, raid my retirment fund, god forbid save up for it. I don't know Rob or his situation and he may be limited in his options.
Rob is an artist but as a professional musician he is also a business. Perhaps he is caught up in the struggle between playing what pays the bills at the expense of his art. I know many of us would love the opportunity to make a living as a musician playing the music he is known for. This may be the source of some of the sour notes I hear coming from the forum on this topic.
Gary Meixner
That being said I think his proposition is kind of weak or maybe he just hasn't sold me on the idea. I have little doubt that the boundaries of the resonator guitar are going to be pushed regardless of any one individuals effort. For me there is just something missing from his request, but that is between him and me.
As for the fee, $3700 is not a ton of money. If that was all that was standing between me and the realization of my artistic vision I think I could find a less shameless way of collecting the funds. I could sell a guitar, skip a vacation, raid my retirment fund, god forbid save up for it. I don't know Rob or his situation and he may be limited in his options.
Rob is an artist but as a professional musician he is also a business. Perhaps he is caught up in the struggle between playing what pays the bills at the expense of his art. I know many of us would love the opportunity to make a living as a musician playing the music he is known for. This may be the source of some of the sour notes I hear coming from the forum on this topic.
Gary Meixner
Posted: 26 May 2011 9:25 am
One thing ya gotta admit: this is a novel idea (at least in our world) and has been an interesting conversation to have...
Posted: 26 May 2011 9:25 am
Yeah, Gary - I understand having mixed feelings about this. The only thing I take issue with what you say is the following:
I realize that sometimes you have to just suck it up and rob Peter to pay Paul. I just don't understand why someone is criticized for trying to pay Paul without robbing Peter.
I also have another way to look at it - here we have someone who is probably sufficiently well-known that he could perhaps get a grant from a foundation of some sort. But think about it - that would just pull money out of 'support of the arts' - at a certain point in a troubled economy, it is a zero-sum game (actually a negative-sum game). Private donations actually add to the sum total of financial support for music.
I don't think there's any shame in asking for funds this way. In fact, I rather think it's normal for a serious professional in any field to ask for support to continue their work.... I think I could find a less shameless way of collecting the funds.
I realize that sometimes you have to just suck it up and rob Peter to pay Paul. I just don't understand why someone is criticized for trying to pay Paul without robbing Peter.
Quite possibly some 'sour grapes' also.I know many of us would love the opportunity to make a living as a musician playing the music he is known for. This may be the source of some of the sour notes I hear coming from the forum on this topic.
I also have another way to look at it - here we have someone who is probably sufficiently well-known that he could perhaps get a grant from a foundation of some sort. But think about it - that would just pull money out of 'support of the arts' - at a certain point in a troubled economy, it is a zero-sum game (actually a negative-sum game). Private donations actually add to the sum total of financial support for music.
Posted: 26 May 2011 9:39 am
I'm very surprised that no one has brought up, or at least one or more people participating in the thread isn't aware of the content I have quoted in the paragraph below from Bluegrass Music Profiles, Dec. 11. 2010. Rob received a $50,000 award last December.
United States Artists, an organization dedicated to supporting America’s finest artists working across diverse disciplines, announced the selection of Rob Ickes as the 2010 United States Artists Cummings Fellow.
The USA Fellows program awards a $50,000 grant to fifty artists each year in the disciplines of music, theater arts, visual arts, dance, literature, media, crafts/traditional arts, and architecture/ design. United States Artists was formed by the Ford Foundation in 2005 with $22 million in seed funding from The Ford, Rockefeller, Rasmuson and Prudential Foundations, with a mission “to invest in America’s finest artists and illuminate the value of artists to society.”
USA Fellowship nominations are made by an anonymous group of arts leaders, critics, scholars, and artists chosen by USA. An expert panel for each discipline then chooses the USA Fellows to be recommended for approval by the USA Board. Previous USA fellows from the field of music include Michael Doucet, Bill Frisell, Ali Akbar Kahn, Terry Allen, Lionel Loueke, violinist Leila Josefowicz, jazz musician Muhal Richard Abrams, and interdisciplinary artist Meredith Monk.
Katharine DeShaw, USA Executive Director, described the 2010 recipients as follows: “Chosen for the caliber and impact of their work, the USA Fellows for 2010 hail from 18 states and Puerto Rico, range in age from 32 to 71, and represent some of the most innovative and diverse creative talents in the country.”
Ickes is the first artist with roots in bluegrass music to be named a USA Fellow. His work spans multiple genres, and Ickes plans to use his fellowship to continue to explore “the vast musical potential that the dobro has to offer,” and to raise the visibility of the instrument.
About Rob Ickes
A Northern California native, Rob Ickes moved to Nashville in 1992 and joined Blue Highway, the highly esteemed bluegrass band, as a founding member in 1994. He is recognized as one of the most innovative Dobro players on the scene today, contributing signature technique and greatly expanding the boundaries of the instrument’s sonic and stylistic territory. He won the International Bluegrass Music Association’s Dobro Player of the Year award for a record-setting twelfth time in 2010, and is the most awarded instrumentalist in the history of the IBMA awards.
An active session player and touring musician, he has collaborated with a wide range of artists, including Merle Haggard, Earl Scruggs, Tony Rice, Charlie Haden, David Grisman, Alison Krauss, Willie Nelson, David Lee Roth, Dolly Parton, Patty Loveless, Peter Rowan, Claire Lynch, andMary Chapin Carpenter.
His most recent release is Road Song (ResoRevolution), a dobro-piano jazz album. He has also released four acclaimed solo albums on Rounder, nine albums with Blue Highway (Rounder, Ceili, Rebel) and a CD with Three Ring Circle (Rob, Andy Leftwich & Dave Pomeroy). The youngest dobro player on The Great Dobro Sessions (Jerry Douglas & Tut Taylor, producers), which won the 1994 Grammy for Best Bluegrass Album, he was also on the Alison Krauss & The Cox Family album, I Know Who Holds Tomorrow, which won the 1994 Grammy for Best Southern Gospel.
Rob is also a gifted resonator guitar teacher; in 2007, he founded ResoSummit, a three-day annual instructional event in Nashville, featuring leading Dobro players and luthiers as faculty.
Posted: 26 May 2011 9:48 am
And here is a link to an article from The Tennessean:
http://blogs.tennessean.com/tunein/2010 ... gs-fellow/
http://blogs.tennessean.com/tunein/2010 ... gs-fellow/
Posted: 26 May 2011 10:32 am
I was not aware of this grant, I am not primarily a resonator player. As I said earlier, my comments were directed at the general issue, not this particular request.
I think this touches this particular request, but not the general issue of how to raise money for artist development.
I think this touches this particular request, but not the general issue of how to raise money for artist development.
Posted: 26 May 2011 10:38 am
Rob is taking advantange of his status amoung players and also the latest technology. Nothing at all wrong with either.
If one feels inclined to donate to him for his cause, great ! No shortage of things to donate money too. If you feel good doing it, God bless you !
There are obviously differing viewpoints on his motives and methods, but if you don't like it, simply don't donate ?
If one feels inclined to donate to him for his cause, great ! No shortage of things to donate money too. If you feel good doing it, God bless you !
There are obviously differing viewpoints on his motives and methods, but if you don't like it, simply don't donate ?
Posted: 26 May 2011 10:59 am
Mark Eaton wrote:I'm very surprised that no one has brought up, or at least one or more people participating in the thread isn't aware of the content I have quoted in the paragraph below from Bluegrass Music Profiles, Dec. 11. 2010. Rob received a $50,000 award last December.
Hey that's the same organization that is hosting this current funding request!United States Artists, an organization dedicated to supporting America’s finest artists working across diverse disciplines, announced the selection of Rob Ickes as the 2010 United States Artists Cummings Fellow.
I want my dollar back!!!!!
Kidding.
Way to go Rob, awesome.
Posted: 26 May 2011 11:49 am
I wasn't offering any opinons or editorials myself, I just thought the information I supplied was germane to the discussion, folks might find it interesting, and it relates to Andy's original post.Dave Mudgett wrote:I was not aware of this grant, I am not primarily a resonator player. As I said earlier, my comments were directed at the general issue, not this particular request.
I think this touches this particular request, but not the general issue of how to raise money for artist development.
Posted: 26 May 2011 12:58 pm
Hey Dave,
I knew someone would probably take exception to the word shameless but it was how I was feeling at the time so I decided to go with it. To be clear I believe very sincerely that to seek private support for an artistic project is a noble effort - and I think to it tends to keep the process honest. (Having worked for few art organizations I am often wary of the politics associated with their funding decisions.)If the project meets your personal criteria you can offer your support. Enough said. I do wish Rob well and encourage all of us on this forum to push the boundaries.
Very best always,
Gary
I knew someone would probably take exception to the word shameless but it was how I was feeling at the time so I decided to go with it. To be clear I believe very sincerely that to seek private support for an artistic project is a noble effort - and I think to it tends to keep the process honest. (Having worked for few art organizations I am often wary of the politics associated with their funding decisions.)If the project meets your personal criteria you can offer your support. Enough said. I do wish Rob well and encourage all of us on this forum to push the boundaries.
Very best always,
Gary
Posted: 26 May 2011 2:21 pm
When I listen to Rob play (on youTube 
) even on swing tunes, I still hear a bluegrass player. Learning jazz can be extremely time-consuming and very difficult especially if you have already developed a strong personal voice. I'm 2 years into it and I feel like I've barely made a dent. If Rob's going to try to play straight ahead or bebop in open G, he's gonna need all the help he can get! Just think, if you can put on your resume that you studied jazz with John Scofield, that carries a lot more weight than if you studied with Joe Blow, the best jazz guitarist in Poughkeepsie you never heard of 
) even on swing tunes, I still hear a bluegrass player. Learning jazz can be extremely time-consuming and very difficult especially if you have already developed a strong personal voice. I'm 2 years into it and I feel like I've barely made a dent. If Rob's going to try to play straight ahead or bebop in open G, he's gonna need all the help he can get! Just think, if you can put on your resume that you studied jazz with John Scofield, that carries a lot more weight than if you studied with Joe Blow, the best jazz guitarist in Poughkeepsie you never heard of Posted: 26 May 2011 4:38 pm
I just sent some money to the fund. I figure Rob is trying to actually do something as opposed to talking about it. That is worth a little support in my book.
Posted: 27 May 2011 8:00 am
Ditto. For less than a CD or set of strings you can make a difference. I like jazz and the idea of promoting it. Rob is top notch and Reso Summit was a great experience. Why not keep the instrument(s) we all like moving along and shared with others? I think that will be the final outcome of anyone becoming more varied and versatile on their instrument.Bob Hoffnar wrote:I just sent some money to the fund. I figure Rob is trying to actually do something as opposed to talking about it. That is worth a little support in my book.
Posted: 27 May 2011 9:20 am
I think to feel okay with sending money in for this deal, it probably helps if you really "know" your Ickes. I can't really claim Rob as personal friend - more of an acquaintance and "resonator brother." But I have spent a fair amount of time around him over the years in workshops/lessons, have seen him play many times, shot the breeze over meals and a couple beers, etc. It's mostly bluegrass and some country that pays for the roof over his head and feeds his family, but he is obsessed, as are guys like Jerry Douglas, Mike Auldridge, Randy Kohrs, Andy Hall, and so on with expanding the so-called boundaries of the instrument. Orville Johnson has posted in this thread. Orville and Rob, along with being superb musicians, have a gift for teaching - which as we know, the two don't always go hand-in-hand. As Rusty wrote above, Resosummit was a great experience. I took jazz sessions from both of them at the most recent Resosummit in Nashville, and those were very worthwhile classes.Twayn Williams wrote:When I listen to Rob play (on youTube
I don't believe Rob has ever called himself a jazz musician on the dobro, he is very careful about that. And we all know as players that natural talent can only take you so far, and to be at or near the top of your instrument requires an inordinate amount of hard work and practice, and tireless dedication. Not that I have been around that many of the world's great musicians up close and personal, but being around Rob, you just know that this guy is relentless in his pursuit of excellence.
Some of you may not be aware of the CD he put out going on two years ago called Road Song, the majority of which are jazz standards. Duets with pianist Michael Alvey. I've done a fair amount of dobro playing over the years with a pianist, and the two instruments for whatever reason just sound beautiful together.
And Rob is aware that shortcuts are not acceptable in pursuing jazz, here is a quote from an article on he and Alvey:
You can read the rest of the article and hear a couple tracks off Road Song here:"So as we started getting together, Michael just would teach me a lot of great things," Ickes says. "One time, we were playing 'Caravan' or some Duke Ellington piece, and I kind of know the melody, and I was kind of jiving my way through it. And when we were done, Michael said, 'You know, with a lot of these standards and stuff, you can embellish and tweak your way around it, but with Ellington, you really have to play it note for note.' "
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =112523794
Posted: 27 May 2011 10:45 am
I agree with Orville. Having been to all 4 ResoSummits and gotten to know Rob personally, I know how committed to sharing and advancing the world of reso music he is. Here is a video of Rob with Three Ring Circle playing the Gypsy Jazz - Bireli Lagrene tune, "Made in France". Twayn's point is well taken, whether you hear a bluegrass player playing jazz or not is debatable and the dobro licks do filter in, but to my ear it's fantastic and amazing. Keep in mind this is a live performance of a ridiculously difficult piece.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZGt7k1-hCs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZGt7k1-hCs
Posted: 27 May 2011 12:27 pm
I really liked this quote:Mark Eaton wrote: You can read the rest of the article and hear a couple tracks off Road Song here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =112523794
"This is a discussion that Rob and I have had many times about bluegrass versus jazz," Alvey says. "He would say to me, 'How do you learn all those different chords and inversions and harmonically move around these songs and improvise and make it make sense?' And my response was, 'How do you play a song with two or three chords and make it sound like a symphony? You're all over the place, and after about eight bars, I've run out of ideas.' "
Posted: 10 Jun 2011 2:14 pm
According to his website, he has achieved his goal (actually raised more than he needed).
Posted: 11 Jun 2011 1:44 pm
Jim Cohen wrote:By the way, I'm studying jazz too and, if each member of the Forum would send me a buck, I could take a bunch of lessons and try to get really good...
You can add me to this list as well. But I have less experience than Jim. So please send me $5.00.
Posted: 11 Jun 2011 1:51 pm
Me three.Mike Neer wrote:Me, too.
Posted: 11 Jun 2011 6:44 pm
Good karma is good for everyone. I'm in....