The Steel Guitar Forum

Steinar that's it, it's handy with the 6th note out the way yet great to play combined with B, D and the high octave G for a full minor seventh.

With tuning the 4th string D up to E like Cashdollar's swing G tuning, you miss out on this and other chord variations (not that she'd miss out on any notes!).
Don Rooke's sound is great-thanks for that insight.

Bob, I got into these tunings after coming over from open G on (standard) slide guitar and standard guitar tuning. I didn't want to relearn the fretboard as I'm pretty lazy. These tunings work well on a Weissenborn guitar or Lap steel tuned one step down too ie. high to low C A F C F D

I'd say start in the G tuning you're used to and then tweek a string or two.

Yeah, Randy Kohrs is amazing in open G. I took a class from him at Resosummit in Nashville last fall, and he showed us that with good palm blocking techniques he could do a very good job of imitating Brent Mason Tele licks on his Scheerhorn resonator. And he can really tear it up on lap steel.

This takes nothing away from the genius of C6th tuning,and to draw a parallel, high bass open G is no more about being mostly bluegrass than C6th is about being mostly Hawaiian.

Three more open G geniuses that can translate the tuning to lap steel without sounding like they are playing bluegrass: Jerry Douglas, Mike Auldridge, and Rob Ickes. Well, duh!

Fretboard Roadmaps For Dobro by Fred Sokolow is mostly about Open G, though there is a sizable amount of open D instruction, and a little bit of open E. The title of the book is a little misleading as it is every bit as much about lap steel (he plays a Supro on the demo tracks CD) as it is about dobro. Many rock and blues tunes in the book along with country and some bluegrass. You can check it out here:

http://www.sokolowmusic.com/instructional/other

Well, I tried.

No, seriously, it's about the player. If you find yourself needing to go beyond what the G tuning can do harmonically, then you make a change. When I first started playing, I wanted to be like David Lindley and Kelly Joe Phelps but, as it should, my interest in the lap steel went beyond them and has taken me to other interesting places. Now, I am able to create my own identity on the instrument. It's taken a while, so don't be in a hurry.

Mike Neer wrote:Well, I tried.

No, seriously, it's about the player. If you find yourself needing to go beyond what the G tuning can do harmonically, then you make a change.

I'm also a 6th tuning player, but I can understand the appeal of the open tunings like G, D, and E. If you need to play some heavy blues or rock riffs, C6 just ain't gonna cut it no matter how sophisticated you can play it -- you really gotta have that 1-5-1 power chord on the bottom, and most of the time it really needs to be E-B-E. Playing Bluegrass on the C6 also really does not convince, you end up sounding like a swing/Hawaiian player sitting in with a bluegrass band most of the time

This is not to say that you can't play rock or blues or bluegrass on C6 anymore than saying you can't play swing or Hawaiian on open G, D or E, because you certainly can. All you need in a tuning is a major 3rd or 6th, a minor 3rd or 6th and a 5th and you can play pretty much any style. BUT, to play stylistically correct, you might need to use a specific tuning and a specific set of licks and riffs.

An interesting exercise is to tune a lap steel to standard guitar tuning. A lot of bottleneck riffs just start pouring out! It's actually a really good steel tuning: G6/Em7 (if you ignore the low A!)

I was there once, I know all about it--but transferring your guitar stuff over to lap steel is not really playing steel. The object is to get away from guitar playing, at least for me. If I want to do all that stuff, then I'd just pick up a guitar.

You can play guitar stuff better on a guitar. There's got to be more appeal to playing steel than knowing you can slide power chords around. But even if that was something you need to do, you should really be looking at an 8 string. I can't get unbelievably fat chords from my 8 string tunings.

Mike Neer wrote:I can't get unbelievably fat chords from my 8 string tunings.

You mean "can" not "can't", right? Anyway,- if I want big fat chords I'd rather do that on my guitar..

The beauty of the lap steel - to me - is its otherwordly beautiful melodic singing voice, that's one thing I can't do on guitar (because I'm not Jeff Beck).

Seriously Mike,- "There's got to be more appeal to playing steel than knowing you can slide power chords around." - you know perfectly well, probably better than anybody, that you can do a lot more than that on a 6-string tuned to a major chord. The history of lap steel is full of great players who have proven that,- from Sol Hoopii (though he moved on to C#m7) and Bob Dunn (open A) to Greg Leisz (open G and D mostly) and Jerry Douglas. I wouldn't wanna be the one to walk up to any of those and accuse them of simply "playing guitar stuff".

Please don't make me feel like all I've achieved these last 8 years has been in vain because I haven't played "proper" lap steel.

I meant can get fat chords....

They were talking about power chords and I addressed that. I think you know me better than that.

John Billings wrote:"so I just got rid of it like Keef"

Yeah! But Keef got rid of it because he was usually too messed up to avoid hitting it! 8^)

What?! Gee, now Im disillusioned....


I use that 1-5-1 thing on the bottom strings a lot -- much of the time, I'm filling the rhythm guitar role, which is probably not the best idea, but it works for us. Well, sometimes it works...

"I'm filling the rhythm guitar role, "

Sometimes, specially in small bands, you have to fill that role! That's one of the reasons I switched to a Uni 12. Needed that low stuff for rhythm. When I played a solo on my 10 stringer, the music sounded full. But when I had to play behind the guitar player's solo, a needed part of the sonic spectrum just wasn't there, and the band's sound suffered!

Apologies to everyone for overstating my opinion. Fact is, I don't really have such a strong opinion on it other than just play music the way you want have fun. I hope you have as much fun with it as I have through the years. I think I can pretty well say I've experimented with just about every known tuning and then some!

I will say, though, that I think C6 tuning and some others don't get a fair shake from younger players because it is stereotyped as being Country or Hawaiian or Swing. I don't believe it's true at all and despite what some of you may think that it's not a good rock tuning, it certainly can be. But if that's what is to be, then so be it. If you do a search through the archives, you'll find plenty of examples of me dismissing C6. It's true, I did it.

Mike, what is that saying? "There is no zealot so officious as a reformed sinner."

No apologies necessary! This is what I thought The SGF is supposed to be about - discussions of this nature.

I am woefully inadequate on C6th, and you rolled up your sleeves, got it done, and play beautifully in the tuning.

As a kid in the 60's, I was one of a dying breed of young lap steel students, well after the heyday of the Oahu Method and big bunches of people wanting to learn to play lap and non-pedal steel. At that point, pedal steel had for the most part put lap/non-pedal on the far back burner.

I took lessons for going on three years at a Bay Area music studio, and there was a framed 8 x 10 glossy of Jerry Byrd in the front office. His name was used often by the teachers, and to me he became practically a religious figure. While some other kids were learning to play Beatles, Stones, etc. on electric guitar, and in a nod to Van Morrison & Them, it seems like everybody learned how to play "Gloria," I was learning (or rather brutalizing) "Aloha Oe" and "Steel Guitar Boogie" and "Running Bear."

We started out on the classic Hawaiian tuning, low bass open A, and eventually graduated to the C6th tuning of "Saint Jerry." It never quite "took" for me back then, and it wasn't long after that I quit on the steel guitar (for a number of years) because I was obsessed with baseball and my goal was to eventually follow in the footsteps of Willie McCovey as the first baseman for the Giants. Oh well, that part didn't work out...

There have been as we well know a slew of different tunings for steel guitar over many decades, hopefully the idea is to make it easier to play something you enjoy playing, so that you aren't a slave to the tuning. It takes more to wrap your head around a 6th tuning, but after you come out the other side of the gauntlet of flaming hoops, it is then you reach enlightenment. I'm a long ways from enlightenment, and there's just so many hours in a week.

The quote below is from a post on Reso-Nation regarding another class I took at Resosummit, taught by Mike Auldridge and Cindy Cashdollar. Mike was on his 8 string Beard MAS tuned to G6th, and Cindy was on her six string version, and I don't recall right off if she had her 4th string cranked up to E or not from the usual GBDGBD.

The beauty of the 8 string, as demonstrated to some of us at the last Summit in a class by Mike Auldridge and Cindy Cashdollar, is that in playing a lot of the swing-oriented stuff, Mike would have on his 8-string MAS everything he needed for portions of certain tunes on a couple frets very close to each other, whereas Cindy on a 6-string MAS had to do some serious jumping around on the neck to try to accomplish something close to the same thing.

"Cindy on a 6-string MAS had to do some serious jumping around on the neck to try to accomplish something close to the same thing."

This is true, but, if you can do it, it's no big deal! The Gatton tune I posted requires some serious "jumpin' around," But, it's worth it!

Mike Neer wrote:You can play guitar stuff better on a guitar. There's got to be more appeal to playing steel than knowing you can slide power chords around. But even if that was something you need to do, you should really be looking at an 8 string. I can't get unbelievably fat chords from my 8 string tunings.

I played an S-10 PSG in a band for a while and I replaced the low B string with a low E so I could have E-B-E in the bottom. The music needed that low voicing and the ability to palm mute power chords, so that's what I did. As you know, it's all about what the music needs! The need for instant access to multiple tunings is the genesis of the multineck console steel, and from there...

I sense me a future pedal steeler in the making

Seriously, you really might want to check out PSG, especially with your approach a Universal 12-string B6 would probably make your head explode with the possibilities!

I've played pedal steel in the past and I just never enjoyed it. The last thing I did was a recording session for a BBC TV programme, and the very next day I put my Emmons up for sale to focus on non-pedal. I'm glad I did.

Mike,,,, you're such such a "purist!" Don't blame you one bit! 8^)

Mike Neer wrote:I will say, though, that I think C6 tuning and some others don't get a fair shake from younger players because it is stereotyped as being Country or Hawaiian or Swing. I don't believe it's true at all and despite what some of you may think that it's not a good rock tuning, it certainly can be. But if that's what is to be, then so be it...

while I sometimes play C6 or A6 with a nod toward western swing or hawaiian styles (it's only a nod, as I'm a complete hack as far as those styles go), I mostly view the tuning as one that gives me full major and minor triads, not as swing or hawaiian tunings. It's a wonderfully intuitive and versatile tuning.

Just to get back to the topic heading.....another G tuning suggestion (credit to Robert Murphy).....you can tune the bottom 3 strings up to A C# E....making it an A11.....


1...D
2...B
3...G
4...E
5...C#
6...A

there's a lot in that tuning.....and you can lower the C# to C if you want to get really jazzy.....