The Steel Guitar Forum

It took some courage to walk into that situation eyes wide open. You have my admiration

b0b wrote:You should "go back to playing country"? That's quite an assumption on his part, isn't it? Is he aware that you have 3 classical CDs out? I've never heard you play country at all!

It makes my blood boil.

b0b
you said it !!!! I still haven’t heard Mike play Revels Bolero - but that don’t mean he hasn’t played it .

Mike -- you da man , go for that brass ring --

I considered doing Bolero for my Spanish Steel CD, but opted for Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's "Capriccio Espagnol" instead. I think it's not just a more interesting piece, I think the final movement is one of the happiest and most joyful pieces of music I've ever heard.

There are some you tube videos of the piece (not by me) in case you want to check it out.

I don't know what the answer is regarding the problem of not being able to look at the conductor while I'm playing. This is a question that's going to take a long time to figure out, and it's possible I will have to forgo playing with full orchestras and confine myself to smaller, conductor-less chamber music ensembles.

You could practice playing blindfolded for a while, I believe that might help with the coyote and feral cat problem too.

I've never had a problem watching pretty girls dance while I play. Watching a conductor might not be as much fun, but it can't be any more difficult.

Remember, you only have to glance at the steel when you change frets.

Hang in there Mike. Your knowledge and playing is top of the line. Jody.

Mike,

Well stated. I have done some (limited) work in an orchestral setting (as part of the various School of Music performances at Belmont), and everything you said is very valuable. I was lucky to have conductors that would work with me and allow me enough freedom to play expressively. But some haven't, and it is by far the most foreign experience I have had as a musician, but also the most rewarding.

Best of luck to you in taking this forward.

I give you the best for your going and giving it a whirl. I have been put down by other players who know nothing about a steel guitar. A lot of music players don't even understand how much work there is in just tuning a steel for making good music.
Some people don't realize that we are human and using both hands, both knees and both feet and are at
about our limit, without adding to it. Good luck on your next endevor with the next conductor. Good Luck and Happy Steelin.

I applaud you sir.

Mike Perlowin wrote:I considered doing Bolero for my Spanish Steel CD, but opted for Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's "Capriccio Espagnol" instead. I think it's not just a more interesting piece, I think the final movement is one of the happiest and most joyful pieces of music I've ever heard.

There are some you tube videos of the piece (not by me) in case you want to check it out.

Mike
I just never heard it played on steel -- over the years I have been intrigued by the tune -- I will say the ending is a lot like a train wreak -
Its my opinion from the title of your first post that the gentleman you were to see on the 28th had already made up his mind on the subject -- you could have been the Andrey Segovia of Steel and his opinion would have been the same --- As for being the Andrey Segovia of Steel -- you already hold that title .

Guys, there is something I have to make clear. I AM NOT A GREAT STEEL GUITAR PLAYER. I'm really a 2nd rate player. Maybe even 3rd rate. I'm trying to do something different with our instrument, and because I'm doing things that have never been done before, people think I'm much better than I actually am.

I've gotten this undeserved reputation as some sort of monster. It's just not true, and I can't possibly live up it. I'm afraid that when you hear me play at a jam or steel show, you're all going to be terribly disappointed.

I've been watching this story unfold since you first posted about it. I think it takes a huge amount of courage to attempt to introduce new ideas to a strict and rigid program.

I wouldn't take it personally, I find that there are a lot of people who just don't like the sound of the steel guitar same as any other instrument like say, banjo or accordian or bagpipes.

I believe your greatest challenge here was not one of musicality but overcoming the bias of the director.

There are other avenues for you to explore though, with people that will, if not welcome it, at least tolerate the concept.

Such an institution as our Murray State University Symphonic Wind Ensemble. They have invited many acts and instruments not normally associated with the classics. The director's and institution's acceptance allows for some very interesting music. The following is just one of many.

Here's an entry re: the Kruger Brothers performance there.
I have to admit that Jens is not your run of the mill banjoist, he is the smoothest and most melodic banjo picker I ever heard....but can he play breakdowns and jigs?, yes as good as any of 'em. Does Uwe know a G run?, you bet he does. But they do so much more than that. A lot of it is original stuff, true and they have a reputation as well, but they couldn't have done it without the accepting attitudes of Murray's folks. The story is here if you would like to read it. click

Perhaps there are some institutes of learning in the L.A. area that would be more accepting of new ideas.

Yes, I realize this is not the same thing as introducing an unusual instrument into their rigid program, but maybe something like this could open a new door.

Anyhow, good on you for your effort.

Bob Hickish wrote:
over the years I have been intrigued by t(Raverl's Bolero)-- I will say the ending is a lot like a train wreak -

It IS an intriguing hauntingly beautiful melody. But the piece relies so heavily on the orchestration- the beauty of the piece is the way the tune flies from instrument to instrument.

I think a fairly large group of musicians that includes a steel could do it, but you'd also have to have a of of other instruments, guitar mandolin, maybe a zither, etc to pull it off.

Good try Mike!

I've got to say, though, considering the traditional orchestral role at most places is to reproduce as best they can, the musical experience of past centuries, it is predictable that the timbre and techniques of an electric guitar would seem jarring and inappropriate.

While new or untypical instruments occasionally make it onto a concert stage, it is typically in new orchestral music that the latitude is granted. Even as a staunch defender of the pedal steel (and a former classical player on other instruments) it seems like a novelty and a stretch to do what you want to do.

Having said that, more power to you. There is no excuse for the rudeness and hostility you were met with under any circumstances. And I must also say that I've heard a number of your renderings of classical compositions, and I generally find them to be pleasing renditions with an appropriate level of attention to all the details of execution that are often lacking in pop performers.

I also want to note that I am in awe of your ability to arrange for the steel guitar! Perhaps you might favor me with a copy of your tips on sight reading standard notation.

Keep at it. Your efforts are appreciated.

Bob Simons wrote:
Perhaps you might favor me with a copy of your tips on sight reading standard notation.

I'll happily send you PDF file of the article I wrote about this, Bob, but I can't attach files through the Forum's PM or E-mail features. If you send me an E-mail, I'll send you (and anybody else who requests it,) the file.

b0b wrote:I've never had a problem watching pretty girls dance while I play. Watching a conductor might not be as much fun.

Or maybe even more fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__SgVSIvCdM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anu_Tali

Congrats on the attempt and refreshing attitude Mike!

Mike,

I've been on the road and unable to browse and respond, but I have actually had good thoughts for you this week. For sure a dissappointment, but also a rare and exceptional achievement.

To gain further perspective, in addition to attending some rehearsals of the other orchestra, you might want to try talking to some piano teachers. It is rare that a pianist gets substantial orchestra time before they audition to play something like a sonata. The positioning of their hands, music and location of the conductor are similar to the pedal steel and the often overwhelming initial orchestral experience is much the same as your hurdle, though obviously their instrument is already well accepted.

I will say, I think the tab sheet stand is too low. When I play for a conductor, I try to get the music as high as possible, so the sight angle between the conductor and music is as small as possible. You may also want to play with getting leg extensions on the steel so you can bring your hands up too.

It sounds like the other orchestra is more open than this one. I know in the Bay Area that the Berkeley Symphony Orchestra has been exceptionally open to new music, especially when they were under the direction of Kent Nagano. They perform many 20th and 21st century pieces and thrive on the new, including works by Frank Zappa. I'll bet there is an orchestra in your area with a similar focus.

Any way, great job. I have tried and failed at things like that too and can imagine some of what you are feeling. In fact, a world famous steel guitar player actually made fun of me at a jam a few months ago; I could have died. But hopefully we can all be more like you and bounce back.

You're one of my heros! Keep on steelin'.

Mike,
Obviously, you were prepared for the audition and gave it your best. Don't blame yourself for not getting that part. Blame the conductor! His music education was not broad enough for him to know where to put you musically. Look at the 1812 Overture: The person who composed that score had a broad enough music background to know where to put the cannon parts. Come on - PSG versus cannons = No comparison. <GBG>

Mike, I hope you don't find my attitude offensive. I'm sorry to read those words that were spoken to you,' Go back to country, blah blah blah, and yeah go ahead and enjoy the humble learning if you wish. You are a very highly respected picker on this forum, but after the words that were spoken to you, with the egotistical teardown about 'you can't watch his direction' and you need to 'go back to pickin country' etc, I'm highly offended by his attitude towards you. I'm here to to tell you this!! Classical or not, and i played it on guitar for some years'!! Oh man, i hope you laughed so loud at him when he said that. I would have gave him the histericks, and thanked him for failing me, i would have told him i'm really not interested anyway, i just wanted to see what you were all about!!
Dis he say, You can't get a classical gig, he dosen't own classical music, i wonder how he'd stack up in a very strick traditional European orchestra such as 'London philharmonic'?? They might say, He's loose and sloppy and un-disiplined!!
Now mike.....You did not fail...He's a PRIMADONA.

Mike. Don't forget what the difference is between a bull and an orchestra. The bull has the horns in front and the A-hole in the rear. : )

I also admire the way you did it Mike,and it's certainly a narrow minded conductor you have met.
Another neat story is that my oldest daughter had some teaching about classical music by a conductor.
When they listened to the:'Peer Gynt-suite no1 OP.46'by E.Grieg he asked who knew that.
My daughter recognized it and said that Daddy has a record where someone plays that song on a Pedal Steel Guitar.
He asked her about it and eventually asked me about it,so I had to make him a copy of Ernie Hagar's version of the tune we all know but don't know what it is...
This opened a new world to him and I gave hima cd with the Pedal Steel in different music styles.
One of his favourites was Sneaky Pete's "Blackbird",
Thanks to Ernie Hagar the pedal steel reached a conductor.....Anyhow thanks for your story Mike!!

This is an interesting and fun story to follow, Mike.

Regarding watching the conductor and fretting the bar, I think that could be learned with more practice. All the string players are doing it, right? (I know it's not EXACTLY the same).

The conductor's mind was clearly made up the first time you talked to him.

I applaud you're additude and clearly defined goals.

It would be fun to bring a cannon next time, though.

David Mason wrote:It would be fun to bring a cannon next time, though.

Preferably with live ammunition, and I know just where I want to aim it.

I've been thinking about this, and I think it was really crappy of him to say that nobody would ever want to work with me and I should give it up. That's a terrible thing to tell anybody, under any circumstances.

When I play at the Hollywood Bowl with the L.A. Philharmonic as my backup band, I will send him 2 complementary tickets.