Why Pick Hard?

[Tommy Gibbons]

Not that I'm in the same league with you guys having only been playing for about two years, but, I find that when I pick aggressively I tend to place too much downward pressure on the bar.

That's my finding...

Thanks for the thread.

TommyG...

[Franklin]

Tommy,

Two years is the key....You are playing hard from a tense posture...The goal is to become very relaxed when playing hard or soft......You will need to do both very well...Multitasking which is required to play the instrument is not yet second nature for you.......Try playing hard when you practice your right hand technique......Soften your attack when you practice your left hand technique.......At some point it will all come together and you will be able to relax with both hands.........Who said building great technique was easy?...........Good luck on your journey.......Paul

[Franklin]

Mike,

Practicing hard on redundant scale patterns and such is a proven method for building accuracy, strength, confidence, and speed on all instruments......How well and why it works is not a subjective matter.......If your saying there is another way to build a high performance engine, why not share it.........It really seems like you are trying to persuade folks to not work so hard on improving their right hand strength.....that seems like an odd stance on the subject of building right hand technique......

Paul

[Michael Douchette]

Everybody says to pick the strings of a pedal steel really hard. Why?

Paul, I wasn't referring to the practice aspect. The OP didn't ask that question, as you can see. His question seemed to me to be a general, sweeping reference to doing it always. I was just saying it is one of our options in an actual performance scenario, and that we shouldn't limit ourselves in any aspect.

[Dave Grafe]

What a stellar thread, exactly the sort of communal, collaborative teaching that makes this forum an international treasure. I personally pick notes that are sometimes gentle and sometimes aggressive; I particularly liked how Paul Sutherland framed his response in terms of "making a commitment to every note," IMHO a particularly astute answer to Barry's original question. Along with the insightful and detailed explanations from the esteemed "other Paul" and other able players this a sure-fire HOF thread in my book, at least in the teaching resources department

[Franklin]

MIke,

Everyone seems to agree that there are different ways to strike the strings for musical expression........After the OP's initial post, Barry expanded the subject and asked for a comment, specifically from me, and others as to why we would recommend picking hard......All of the comments here went towards the topic of picking hard for building right hand technique....Everything from tone, clarity, confidence to emotional expression has been discussed since the thread was expanded...........

Paul

[Barry Hyman]

Here's another thought on this subject. I have been playing psg a long time but I have been playing guitar longer, and have played it many more hours than I have played psg. Up until about four years ago, I would have described myself as a guitar player who also plays pedal steel, not a real pedal steel player. In the last four years I have been woodshedding a lot on psg, it has become my number one instrument, and I now have "control" of it, meaning that 99% of the time when I think of something, it comes out of the instrument. I can't play nearly as fast or fancy as some of you guys, but I can make the instrument play what I am hearing in my head (finally, after 38 years!) and I am very, very happy -- happier every day.

So from all that guitar playing, mostly fingerstyle, I learned fingertip contol of dynamics. I can play guitar whisperingly soft or bitingly loud without touching the volume control. I even do live fades on stage, where I play softer and softer until the sound is gone, again without touching the volume control.

The problem is that psg has a volume pedal, which is something I almost never use on guitar. All of us psg players have two methods of controlling the volume -- right hand and right foot. Perhaps many of you usually pick hard, and then control the dynamics with your foot? For years I was plagued by the fact that I would do both at once -- when I wanted the psg soft, I would let up on both my hand and my foot, and the note would be too soft. And then when I wanted a note or chord to pop out, I would pick hard and step on the pedal at the same time, and the damn thing would be too loud! In the last few years this problem has faded into insignificance for me, but it could be argued that I still play psg like a guitar rather than like a pedal steel. I tend to move the volume pedal less and less, except when I am looking to sustain a long note or chord, and I still tend to control the volume with my right hand, guitar-style.

Mr. Franklin will be pleased to know that most of the time I do pick psg pretty hard, because I like the tone and the long sustain when you get those strings ringing enthusiastically. But "most of the time" is not the same as "always," which is what prompted me to start this thread. Make love to the notes, don't f*** them -- that's my motto. Some of the time that should be done with great enthusiasm, and other times it should be done very, very tenderly!

[Clete Ritta]

If you only play with soft picking, your dynamic range is limited to just that.
The volume pedal cant add any more energy than you put into the initial string vibration.
Beside your dynamic range, you are also limiting the length of notes you can play effectively, since a soft attack will not sustain very long.

It probably helps to develop your volume pedal technique as well by picking firmly and controlling your attack and swells by foot, which to me is a big factor in that "crying" sound of PSG. Like a baby crying, it starts soft and gets louder and higher (repeatedly and sometimes seemingly forever without a breath).
The difference between a whimper and bawling your eyes out starts with the right hand.
After all these years Im just learning to cry.

Clete

[Franklin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8AuKqcZ-AM

Check this out......Listen to Gatton and Emmons.......This demonstrates why picking hard is great for expression.......enjoy.........Paul

[Michael Douchette]

Paul, indeed, the topic did digress; however, as I was the second respondent, before the digression occurred, I chose to stick to the OP. You seem to be handling the OT discussion just fine.

[Clete Ritta]

Paul,

Someone had posted that link recently maybe about the effect used.
I was just listening to that last night!
Great indeed, and worth listening to again and again!
I had to look up the Magic Dingus Box too heh.

[edit]Barry, who is the "everybody says" that you made reference to?
Thats a bit general no?
I dont think everybody says that you have to pick hard.

Clete

You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but please dont pick your friends nose.

[Franklin]

Clete,

It is pretty general.....You'll have to ask Barry........

Paul

[Barry Hyman]

In the recent "Best Advice You Ever Got" thread somebody said PICK HARD, and I had seen that advice a few times before in the Forum, and it led me to experiment with picking harder than I might otherwise have done, so I decided to ask about it.

The word "everybody" was used loosely, but it does seem to be a bit of advice that many psg players have heard, even if they haven't considered all the nuances discussed in this excellent thread. I think we all agree that there is absolutely nothing that all of us would agree on, but that is half the fun!

Peace and love and pedal power!

[Joe Rogers]

Barry, you wrote,

>>>>“Wise and thoughtful advice from truly great players gets watered down and oversimplified as it trickles down through the ranks. I have read several posts on the Forum where people say PICK HARD as if that was appropriate in every circumstance and was the only thing needed to master the instrument.” >>>>

I started the thread titled, “The Single Best Tip for Playing Steel Guitar” where I asked, “What in your opinion is the single best playing tip you have ever gotten from another player/course?” For my personal situation I stated the following,

>>>>“The first is what I consider the best piece of advice I have ever received. In several of Paul Franklin’s instructional courses he mentions the art of picking hard when practicing.” >>>>

Note the last two words……when practicing. I have to apologize here for not elaborating further in that thread. When you practice in this manner AND develop the hand control, you will automatically learn to vary the attack for aggressive as well as soft passages where taste calls for it. I also should have mentioned that when playing a gig, my personal picking attack DOES vary. If one only looks at my statements in the previous mentioned thread as saying I am advocating ONLY playing hard ALL the time, then my words are taken out of context.

Barry, know that I am not picking on you when I say this, but your statements could also be easily taken out of context where in the previous thread you wrote the following:

>>>>“Why pick hard? I teach guitar for a living, and the first thing I have to tell the kids is, "Don't hit the strings so hard!!!">>>>

…….and now in this thread you say this:

>>>>“Mr. Franklin will be pleased to know that most of the time I do pick psg pretty hard, because I like the tone and the long sustain when you get those strings ringing enthusiastically.”>>>>

A seeming contradiction, but I do know where you are coming from.

Douchette my good friend, in the previously mentioned thread Paul F. mentions Hughey as playing hard when playing aggressively, and in this thread you say Hughey didn’t. I know that you both knew Hughey well……as did I. I did have the luxury of opening for Vince 3 years in a row and I watched John like a hawk the whole time. His attack was a lot more aggressive than most people think.

Paul F’s comments in the last thread dated Nov. 7, 6:04am and in this thread written Nov 7 at 4:40am as well as those followed by David Hartley are my sentiments exactly…..not because of who is posting the comments, but because I have found them to be true of my own playing experience. Your mileage may vary. No need for me to write a novel when I cannot say it any better then they did.

Perlowin, I love the quote you pulled out…..totally cool !!!


Joe Rogers

[Michael Douchette]

Joe, being the "old timer" I am... ... I guess my reference point for someone picking hard might be different. I personally never saw anyone pick harder than Crawford; anything less than that, I consider "softer." Perhaps that will help clarify MY perspective.

[Eric West]

Well I can add this.

If you "pick hard" and wear your picks loosely, you're not going to get a similar result as someone that clamps them on. Similarly, if you wear your finger picks as "finger covers" you're not going to get the same result as someone that clamps them on hard as finger extensions.

The thumbpick had me stumped for a good twenty years.

Buddy C, as my teacher wore blue hercos that fit his thumb. He could pick a lot harder than I could with them. They slipped around my thumb until I got to cutting nationals down narrower and re-heat shaping them. THEN I could FINALLY pick as hard as I wanted.

There are a lot of variables.

Basically, as a conclusion, I would add to carefully consider as many things as you can, and make your own conclusions.

When I took lessons from BC in 77-9 he changed from curling his pinky under to only his ring finger like BE was doing at the time. (This about the time that he tuned his C6 top string down to D.) I tried it, and went with the pinky under as he first taught me. It seemed to fit me better. I extended it only during lessons to "humor" him. At present, I alternately use each method. It's been a 30plus year change.

Crossing all possible notes over between the thumb and middle finger is similar. Some people use the index. I find that the T/Middle works better for me. On guitar, I only wear a thumbpick and cross over all the notes I can with the T/Index and use 3 fingers bare.

I try to find out what people whose playing I like do, and see if it works for me.

I hear "everybody" tunes straight up..

(ducks..)



EJL

[Michael Douchette]

I hear "everybody" tunes straight up..

(ducks..)



EJL

Ok, I have a busy week; this is great, but I gotta change strings on my tone machine... y'all have fun. This has been great!

[Franklin]

Joe,

You can write a novel anytime you want......You're right about Hughey and Lloyd........Hughey played very aggressively as did Lloyd........Hughey was lightning fast with chords...Listen to the steel parts on "15 Years Ago'" Try playing those with a light touch......They'll sound thin an unexpressive....A big part of John's sound came from how hard he picked and his mastery of the volume pedal..........

Paul

[Michael Douchette]

Good morning... Paul, then our difference is purely semantics. If examples like those are "hard picking," then I play "harder" than I ever thought. I think of it as Crawford and Russ digging in on something like "Old Joe Clark," where I could actually hear the acoustic sound coming off the steel at Jimmy's house while he played it. "Light" to you must mean "timid." And that's ok; at least a more common reference point has been stated.

[Franklin]

Good morning to you.........We might as well get on the same page...."Hard and Soft attack, or touch" are common terms used by PSG teachers when teaching right hand technique..... I am not "timid" when I choose to use a "light" touch.........I prefer the terms "Hard and soft" as a teacher because they describe the physical act of picking, no more.

Paul

[Michael Douchette]

Hopefully, we've cleared that up, then.

[Bill Miller]

I've been trying to increase my speed lately and I've noticed that I have less trouble playing triplet runs if I really shove my thumb pick well back on my thumb so that it's almost painfully tight. Wearing my pick like that and moving my arm and wrist more as opposed my thumb joint seems to give me better accuracy and better tone on the bass strings. So basically I am picking harder than before with this technique, at least on faster pieces.

[Brett Lanier]

Can I just say that I love the way Randy Reinhard hits them strings with his picks? I think he gets a lot of expression just from picking.

[Tommy Detamore]

I had the pleasure of visiting Lloyd at his home a couple years ago. My pal Bruce Bouton took this picture with my cell phone:



Right after the picture was taken, Lloyd went into a fast picking pattern while I was still holding the bar on the strings as shown. I was shocked at how hard he was pulling those strings! I could feel it in my left hand.

And Buddy Charleton tried to teach me to pick pretty hard. His biggest ongoing complaint to me was "you're babying your thumb!", meaning I wasn't digging in with it hard enough. I still have trouble with that today. And I still hear his voice!

[Ray Minich]

A couple of summers ago I got to sit on the spectator's side of the steel, across from Lynn Owsley, in Bobbe's shop.
One of my first observations was the aggressiveness of his pick attack, as well as how much force he would push down on the strings with the bar.
Guess maybe for years I was worried about breaking the guitar.
Lesson learned.