The Steel Guitar Forum

Mickey Adams wrote:If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...When you dissect it...You should see....a duck

Amen!

I called it Junk! I meant it. I could lie about it and say what people would want to hear. I chose to tell it like it is.

A PSG is one of THE most difficult instruments to learn to play. WHY fight something when you do not have to? Since you have enough to fight getting used to what would at first seem also like the most awkward instrument to play; even when you buy the very best. Why add to the misery? Worse, it can cause you to develop bad habits that can take a lifetime to cure.

Cost is relevant.

If you were broke and someone offered you a brand new Lamborghini for $20,000, would you not climb a mountain to get it?

Would you pay that for a bucket of bolts?

It is the same thing. Junk is junk. John Fabian called me about it, when I called it that on this forum; right after they came out with the beast. And he did admit it was. John and I go way back, but I simply told him that it delineated his product, and I felt it was not in keeping with the "late comer" company that stole the show.

Buy the best guitar you can possibly afford. Unless you are still growing up, never grow out of anything. Rather grow into it.

In all the years I have been aquainted with Buddy and countless others, I have never seen them seek anything but the best.

Flame away. I stand on it! It is a disgrace!

c.

I agree yep its junk. but the last time I said that a bunch of forum members wrote me nasty emails about it.

FWIW: If you bought a "used pro" instrument, you'd have no trouble selling it, if you didn't take to it.
If you decided to stick with it, you'd be "all set"
Just, IMHO
there's a lot to be learned, ergonomically, as well as musically. You don't want to be toying around, you want to play.
Rick

C Dixon wrote:...I called it Junk! I meant it. I could lie about it and say what people would want to hear. I chose to tell it like it is...

It's worse than junk. It was sold as a package by Musicians' Friend and was the only pedal steel listed by a major internet supplier, so it sold to people who had only seen professional steel guitars played and who then wondered why they couldn't get good results out of it. It probably put many potential steel guitarists off the steel guitar for ever.

I got a Carter Starter just about four years ago now. I have found the following issues with it: 1) LKL has that silly screw for a stop, which is not a solid enough stop for accurate tuning; 2) LKR travel is too far; 3) the gig bag is worse than useless; 4) it walks quite a bit; and 5) after playing a beautiful '67 Emmons, it feels like a little toy.

On the other hand, I have found the following benefits to it: 1) it cost me $800 with a volume pedal; 2) it is a pedal steel guitar with E --> Eb, E --> F, D# --> D natural, and B --> Bb changes, which are enough to teach me a lot about how to play nearly any "real" instrument; and 3) did I mention that I got a PSG for $800?

I couldn't justify spending more than that on an instrument I had no real idea if I would enjoy playing, and had never even touched prior to that. I have seen a few used PSGs in music stores; mostly Fenders (not standard, in other words) and MSAs that were not in good repair. None of them were within my price range. The Carter Starter was a good choice for me in that it was a PSG with ALL the typical beginner changes at a low price. With a set of Jagwire strings and careful attention to RH placement, the tone I get is pretty decent. I have been lucky enough not to have the pedal board exhibit any undue flexion.

Is it all the instrument I could ever hope for? Certainly not. However, considering that the alternatives cost at least 2x as much, I feel that this instrument has done very well for me.

I don't know what the Stage 1 sounds or feels like. It seems like a more solidly built instrument, from what I understand, but it doesn't have as many knee levers--there's your trade off. Neither does a Maverick, which since it says "Sho-Bud" on the front, costs just the same as a C/S and is (from what I have read here) not capable of as many of the now standard changes.

"Buy the best instrument you can afford" is oft-repeated advice, and it really is the best advice. In my case, the Carter Starter was the best I could afford, and I am quite happy with it, while at the same time aware of its shortcomings. I look forward to moving up to a decent D-10, but until then, my Carter Starter will have to do.

And it will do fine.

To those who haven't taken the "plunge";
there are several "used" MSA pro steels available, in the "for sale" section of this forum. Having owned one, I can tell you that for a few hundred $'s more, you'll have a REAL guitar, that is well built and great sounding.
Rick

Good post, Jeremy! That tells the story from someone who's been there.

Since many are coming from a standard guitar background, let me offer this analogy:

Is a Squire Strat that you can buy for $129 a piece of junk? Assuming you want to learn guitar, and money is tight, and you're not even sure you'll stick with it, I think it's a good purchase.

There will be kids getting such an instrument for Christmas. Some will go on to greatness.

They might have never had that chance if they held out for a pro level guitar to start, because some well meaning experienced player told them it was junk.

Joey Ace wrote:...Is a Squire Strat that you can buy for $129 a piece of junk? Assuming you want to learn guitar, and money is tight, and you're not even sure you'll stick with it, I think it's a good purchase...

I agree, but the differences between a Squire Stratocaster and a Fender Stratocaster, both made by the same firm, are not as great as the differences between a Carter Starter and the Carter professional models. On my Starter I fitted Emmons pedals and moved them to the right, fitted an Emmons pickup, longer legs, etc., and it still didn't sound very good. I was in the process of building a new pedal board to replace the bendy one when I just gave up on it.
The mechanism is the only part worth keeping and I'm thinking of using that in a pedal dulcimer or a pedal resonator guitar. In case anyone should decide that I'm ready to sell it please don't write to me. After reading my comments about the Carter Farter in the past I get about three emails a month from people wanting to buy it, and I never sell anything that I can experiment with.
The Squire Stratocaster plays okay straight out of the box. It doesn't need to be completely rebuilt to make it playable. I use a Squire Bass. I've thought of investing in a Fender Bass, but I only use it to put bass lines in my recordings, not play on stage, so I would rather invest my money in other types of instruments.

Jeremy Craft wrote:

I don't know what the Stage 1 sounds or feels like. It seems like a more solidly built instrument, from what I understand, but it doesn't have as many knee levers--there's your trade off.

A Stage One has 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. Same as a Carter Starter.
A Stage One also comes with a hardshell case, which Carter will charge you an extra $100. That would make it around the same price as a Stage One.

Other then that, I think your post was fairly accurate.
Your Carter Starter will do exactly what it's intended to do...introduce new comers into the world of pedal steel guitar.
It has what you need to get started.

Have fun exploring it.

Rick

Can we all agree that the Carter Starter is the cheapest steel guitar?
Whether you define cheap by monetary or material standards, it is the Pinto of the ranch that may have turned a few away, but most likely inspired as many to continue learning and eventually get that Mustang, which does support the cottage industry of builders out there.
I got mine used for $500. It was worth it. With a few modifications it still works.

Clete

Can we all agree that the Carter Starte ... el guitar?

Indeed I can. In EVERY nuance of the word.

IMO, it has ONLY one purpose. It might make an exellent boat anchor. Not 100% sure.

c.

Alan Brookes wrote:

C Dixon wrote:...I called it Junk! I meant it. I could lie about it and say what people would want to hear. I chose to tell it like it is...

It's worse than junk. It was sold as a package by Musicians' Friend and was the only pedal steel listed by a major internet supplier, so it sold to people who had only seen professional steel guitars played and who then wondered why they couldn't get good results out of it. It probably put many potential steel guitarists off the steel guitar for ever.

On one hand its junk and mine only lasted a week before the knee levers bent every which way and I had to send it back to musicians friend. On the other hand , it was the ONLY entree into the world of pedal steel for many of us. Great idea with some bad design flaws sums it up for me.

The Pinto analogy is a good one.

At least no beginner PSGs burst into flames, except on-line.

...

Joey Ace wrote:The Pinto analogy is a good one.

At least no beginner PSGs burst into flames, except on-line.

Amen Joey

ya simply can NOT make a princess out of a sow's ear.

The Carter Starter I purchased was used and shipped to me in California from Maine....it was still in tune when it arrived...go figure!

My purchase of a Carter Starter was an spur of the moment impulse. The idea of looking into pedal steel started occurring to me about 6 years ago when I started playing dobro. I saw a Starter on my local Graigslist and bought it for $300. At that price it's a bit like the drug pusher who gives away the first taste. Well I'm totally hooked and in spite of all the commentary about the quality of this thing I'm having a ball. AND I'm really excited about shopping for the inevitable upgrade.
The information on this forum is incredibly helpful. And if I'd gotten the whole picture as presented here in this thread, I may have looked around a bit more before I jumped at the Starter. I can say, though, that it's serving its purpose perfectly and for now is a good match for my ability. I saw a used one go on ebay for over $900 this week so I can't really feel too bummed about having chanced into a piece of junk.
Thank you all for your tremendous help.

David Guido wrote:The Carter Starter I purchased was used and shipped to me in California from Maine....it was still in tune when it arrived...go figure!

When mine was brand new and shipped from Musicians' Friend to California it was also in tune. Unfortunately it didn't stay that way.

By the way, congratulations Gerry on your election to the Governorship of California.

Thanks, Alan. This will date me, I know, but I grew up out in California when Jerry Brown's father was governor, prior to Reagan. From the looks of it, though, I don't have to worry too much about that here.

I bought a CS for rehearsal and used it about 6 mnths. It not junk imho, but it's not very good either. It actually sounded good, but some of the design shortcuts just didnt make sense to me.JP

Don't take it from us, Ed.

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/6652563/Carter_Starter_Demo

Remember, the poor craftsman blames his tools.

How much does the Carter Starter weigh? What kind of material is the changer made of? Thank you.

Mitch