The Steel Guitar Forum

I think this is an interesting notion about the steel guitar being dead. I think if you look across all genres an argument can be made that the steel guitar is more prevalent in today's music than ever before. It's being used in different ways but I think that, as you stated Paul, change has been the only constant in the music business since it's inception. People are figuring out all kinds of different approaches to play and record this great instrument. Whether or not one likes a certain approach or not is kind of beside the point. I think as more and more recording artists, singers,producers,etc. of all kinds of music are attracted to the steel guitar their influence and ideas will only help to broaden the infinite possibilities for the steel. As for country music dying I think if you are thinking about a certain era or style of country music then you could certainly get the feeling that it is dying because nothing ever stays the same. I believe there were a lot of people bemoaning the demise of the instrument when the pedal steel sound was created in the 50s.

Pedal Steel will be around as long as someone is interested in playing it. Music producers and music consumers want good musicians making both interesting new music and reproducing older music, and they aren't all that picky about whether or not it is steel guitar, electric guitar, bagpipes or a pan flute. If you can make good music there is a demand for it.

Now if there will be a place to play it is probably more questionable. The demand for live music has consistently shrunk for the last 80 years. From the golden years where every local radio station had their own live acts and ballrooms were filled patrons and musicians, through today's mass marketing of industry giants, closing bars, and the vast segmenting of entertainment, we've watched the demand for live music of every type become less every year. Traditional country music with it's signature steel guitar sound has actually survived better than most but is not immune to the trend.

In the place of live venues, there are huge unexplored opportunities for recorded music. The revolution in recording equipment has ripped the recording process from the hands of a few professional studios into basements and spare bedrooms around the world. As video recording equipment continues to cheapen, become simplier to operate, and in the hands of the general public, no doubt new areas of demand will follow there as well. While you might not have much call to play for a couple of hundred on Saturday night, you'll certainly have the technical capability to play for a couple of hundred thousand over the internet or what ever follows in the future. The chance for you to make your own music and have it heard world wide has never been better or more accessable to musicians of all stripes.

And as far as the continuing battle between U-12 and D-10s, it seems just as contested today as a decade ago. I continue to believe that the 6th based tunings allow you to play a wider variety of music, (particularly the Great American Song Book), easier than any extended 9th based tuning I've tried. It's not that you can't get any chord voicing on U-12, it's just not as easy for me as C6th. But others will certainly disagree and therefore I believe there is a bright future for both versions of the instrument.

Great post.

chas smith wrote:I play steel guitar in metal environments,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plk8H9f69Rs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF4jwCzM ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/user/TackFromVen ... 1Csk8VMzKE

In a 6 piece free improv "noise" ensemble with 2 other guitars and 3 reed players, as well as art music. The steel guitar is thriving.

Interesting stuff.

The only young people I see on a regular basis are my (six-string) guitar students,and among them there's a very firm rejection of the plasticized top 40 bimbo & boyband stuff. They're very interested in digging back to find "real" music, including old country. However, of course that's a very self-selecting sample - somebody sure is buying up those Jonas Brothers & Lady Gaga songs. It's my impression that no one is ever very good at predicting "the future of music", at least that I've seen.

However ~ (this gets deep ) ~ it's also my impression that musical trends are largely made up of the intersection & clash between the goo-eyed desires of 11-year-old girls, and what male musicians in their early 20's actually want to play. Sometimes the girls win out (Madonna), sometimes the boys win out (Zeppelin) and every once in a while there's a perfect synergy (The Beatles). When the 11-year-old girls grow up to be 13, all the 13-year-old boys pretend to like what the girls liked when they were 11, and all the girls pretend to like what the 13-year-old boys like, which is the music the 23-year-olds play. Knowing this does me absolutely no good at all.

Mike Perlowin wrote:

Eric West wrote:
More inroads into serious music, and the other forms too. Now that they are tuning "ET" like serious instruments..

When I play with my classical music trio, the ladies insist I tune ET. And I am more in tune with the viola and cello when I tune that way, but at home, it sounds out of tune to me, so I keep one steel tuned ET and the other JI.

...you guys tune that thing...?

Db

Our band specializes in 50, 60s & 70s country music and does very well at it. The thing is, I don't play the pedal steel at our gigs; I play a Remington D10. To this date, only one person has come up to me and asked why I don't use a pedal steel. My usual reply is, "I can't get my hands and feet to work together and that's why I am on the stage and not on the dance floor"

I also play at a couple of malls doing Hawaiian or country themes. For those I use my D8 non-pedal and the Remington. At the mall gigs, I doubt if anyone even knows the difference between a D10, D8 or a pedal steel. They know the sound of the steel guitar but that about it.

Steel guitar gave me a new career.

Drew Howard wrote:Steel guitar gave me a new career.

amen !!!

I know its alive by the looks on peoples faces when I'm playin. I'm sure you do as well

I don't think it's dead - it just needs to be noticed more.

How about a band with a steel player instead of a lead guitarist? I'd love to see a heavy metal band with just PSG, bass, and drums.

How about having more steel players set up at the front of the stage instead of in the background with the drummer?

And how about using PSG more in other genres of music besides country?

from the other thread in MUSIC..

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=189641





I played a show last night, Neil Young Harvest Tribute, 11 artists doing one song each..I was the only Pedal Steel player and let me just say this.."attention grabber"...

I was there to play with my friends on" Are You Going to the Country" which is more of a slide style, bluesy..AB peds in , not typical traditional Country, you guys know what I mean, think Duane Allman, but in the middle of the song we played more of a Waylon style, Mooney style Steel, It went over huge.

but

I was also asked as soon as I arrived if I would play with another act on Heart of Gold, which I did...

I was also approached by a bunch of people after those two songs telling me how great it was to have the Steel in the room and they loved it on the songs.

This was not a Country audience, more of a rock audience with crossover appreciation. Most of the artists have shows which are based on original material. The club does not hire cover bands, primarily artists in there own right...

The main artist who closed the show , Lenny Federal, this older really well known and excellent Blues player in town asked me to come by his regular Fri gig and sit in. Now that was a surprise...But Lenny does it all, he's not locked in, standards, ballads, Blues , crossover, country etc...

I was asked if I do sessions. 3 artists took my contact info... ( business card )

So...I think Steel is not dead, maybe hiddin' away in a place that nobody visits, but certainly artists know it's out there, but if we are going to go to other venues we are going to have to stretch beyond typical and/or traditional Country pickin'.. It's not the instrument, it's us...as players...

S T R E T C H !


t

as Frank said : it ain't dead, it just smells funny

aside from the artists & musik that put the steel where it belongs, i'd say the internet has made the steel, & all that comes w: it, accessible to all from around the globe
takin' this forum as a prime example
could it be that there are more folk steelin' nowadays than there was in 54 or 64 ?
as to the D10, 2 necks are better than 1

I seem to be busier than ever, playing in several different bands/music types ... and sessions.
I got a call last weekend to do a session for some young guys who had made the finals of the APRA Silver Scroll awards - which is the premier songwriting awards out this way ..all genres! They were told they needed to put some lap steel down on their track, but insisted on pedal steel (I could have done either) .. when I arrived to do the job I was surprised to find that these lads were aged between 19 and 24 ... and not into country music as we would recognise it -- but this was original music and it was brilliant, I thoroughly enjoyed the session -- and it was neat to think that these guys really wanted pedal steel on their track .. I ended up doing 2 more tracks for them as well, they were so impressed with what I did for them ! Young people really seem to be aware of our instrument which is awesome.

This goes to the whole fame/attention/"stardom" aspect, of course. You sit down, you don't sing, you don't write songs about loving your baby, hating your baby, doing your baby, not doing your baby, somebody's doing my baby... so, do you matter? I prefer to think I do, but it's not by normal American standards anymore - I will never be known as "the Lady Gaga of steel guitar."

I have three radio stations programmed in my work van -- classical, triple-A and modern country formats. Between the triple-A and country formats I hear pedal steel all day long. Funny, though, that I hear more of the steel that I like -- traditional E9 -- on the triple-A station.

In fact, 'sides playing with Rayland Baxter when he's in town, I've just landed a gig with a up-and-coming Alt/Americana guy. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Onward-So ... 4437965443 Love it! I get to play the most old-school E9 licks all set long and these young fellas (and their fans) fall all over the place!

"Viva Alt. Country," say I!!

All together now. Sing! Pedal Steel Guitar Is dead... no! no! It's outside looking in!

Paul,

Congrats on getting the forumites stirred up a bit. I posted a thread a couple of weeks ago called "General Public Does Not Buy Steel Guitar Music". I thought it would get a few responses. Check it out if you get a chance. I sort of did that in the spirit you are taking this "Pedal Steel Is Dead" approach.

In answer to your questions, Pedal Steel likely is just as popular now as ever. I do believe we have opportunity ahead for growth and broader exposure.

As for the D10 vs. Universal argument if you will, I would say that D10 is here to stay for the foreseeable future. I do, however, believe the S12 is gaining ground especially among those who are attracted to our instrument via Robert Randolph and the Sacred Steel movement. The changes you mention in the various musical forms likely will determine in the long run if there is one structure, one tuning that ends up prevailing. Lastly, you asked if there are any clear directional changes. I would submit that nothing has come along lately that shifts our instrument from where it has basically been the past 15 years. We all still basically use the same setups, equipment and electronics. Likely our ability to connect ideas, concepts, and theories through the many vehicles available in today's world will thrust us forward at a higher rate in the future. Or at least one can hope.

Stay tuned,

Zane

As in all of life, it is about trade-offs. Some decide to pursue a career in music at the cost of their marriage and home life. Some eventually make it big, in a few cases making more than most day jobs, but most do not. I could never afford the pay cut to pursue it. More power to the rest of you.

Some play a certain steel guitar because of the mechanical advantages and/or its weight at the trade off for tone. It is the it-sounds-good-enough trade off. I have owned several all-pull guitars with some impressive mechanical advantages, but I end up selling them and going back the push-pull. Paul and Bruce Bouton set me straight on this very forum back in 1997! Remember the white Derby with “lucky” serial number 13?

The so-called B6/E9 universal 12 string tuning is a real example of trade-offs. It is probably lighter to carry than a lot of D-10s and you have to change fewer strings, but I can see how you lose something from each tuning as compared to D-10. Others will say that you should not approach that tuning as playing in B6 mode and at other times playing in E9 mode. You should treat it as one tuning. I do not know how many really do.

In order for some to get steel jobs in certain genres, they have to cover up the real steel tone with effects (particularly distortion) and it is losing its distinction. Sure it may pay the bills, but if it does not sound like a pedal steel is it really being accepted? Or, if it sounds like a slide guitar on steroids, is the steel really there?

If you will notice Paul’s work with Dire Straits, he did not use distortion, at least on most of the cuts I have heard and it was awesome.

There are trade-offs to tuning approaches that others can or have addressed. I tried tuning straight up and it did not sound as good to me as flatting the thirds.

Bands make trade-offs regarding whether to tour with steel or not, regardless whether it was used on the record. In some places, the only way to get a job playing steel is to be a "utility man" playing various instruments. The trade-off there is that you cannot focus on just playing one instrument and steel really needs your undivided attention!

Great provocative thread started…

Steel is alive and well on country radio in Portland and most of the steelers here are getting a little work here and there. I is not dead in the northwest.

The D-10 has taken a back seat to the S10 here as most young players buy a single neck and most older players have a single laying around the house for smaller gigs or practice. Still lots of D's as the northwest is a steel guitar heaven.

I have more students looking to play steel than ever before.

Larry Behm

Ofcourse the steel is not dead!!! Who said that? lol

Thanks for sharing your insights.

My take on the universal vs D10 threads........

Since the forum started, I mostly see a change within musicians.....Because many have shared their mindset of how to create outside the box, those that accepted their perspective are now free to search the world of music, on any tuning they choose. Playing outside the box is a mindset shared by all of those who study music in general.

I believe once anyone discovers that intervals are intervals, and the same intervals can be found within any tuning, their personal mental restrictions start to peel away. They begin to find needs for altering their pedal arrangement....They will continue to expand their pedal arrangement until they achieve their specific desires.......No matter what tuning, its a personalized instrument......I don't ever see that changing......

I do believe there is not enough emphasis on how music is put together.....Those that work the puzzle, piecing together rhythm, melodic, and harmonic interpretations, within various styles of music, seem to be accepted very well in any genre they pursue.

Our lure.........Its the sound of the instrument that intrigues artists of all genres...It all comes down to "Can It be played to speak the language of any particular song?" Yes!

So in short, I see more steels being sold today, I see more musicians on the instrument.........I don't see a change in popularity, one tuning, over the other, from where it was 15 years ago. The steel guitarists are the ones changing.

Paul

Yes Paul!
Music is music, not tunings, pedal arrangements or instruments, for that matter.
Whatever path leads you where you wanna go,take it...
The steel is not an autoharp and the pedals are not just instant chord changers in a paint-by-numbers pattern.
And I think the steel is alive and well...

My band played a gig, yesterday afternoon, at a very prestigeous Polo club, here on Long Island,NY. These people are all in the upper, upper tax bracket, if you know what I mean. Even though my wife, Darlene, stood out as the front and main star of the show, my steel playing caught more attention. These people were enamored by the instrument. There were several, soon to be robber barons, in their teens, who, asked numerous questions about the steel. They seemed to be quite genuine and not facetious about it. We handed out about 20 or so, band business cards during the day. All in all, it was a pleasant surprise to be respected and not be treated as background music. Our music (classic country) and the steel were treated royally. Hopefully, our business cards will show a return and produce more gigs.

I have found that the pedal steel is alive and well in the more "folksy" brand of indie music out there now. You can find steel peppered around on tracks by the decemberists, Bright Eyes, Okkervil River, Sufjan Stevens, Palace Brothers/Will Oldhem/ Bonnie Prince Billy, Lambchop, Grizzly Bear.

Some of my favorite pedal steel sounds come from one of the original drone/doom metal band Earth. Their album Hex or the Printing of the infernal method striped away all the distortion and made a atmospherically expansive and beautiful record while still being slightly heavy. I would highly recommend checking it out, it might not be every ones cup of tea but it is a fantastic record.

I am not a real country guy, I love the old stuff by hank and Willie and Mr. Cash, Waylon, Kristoferson etc. But my love for the sound of pedal steel came from listening to shoegaze music, and dream pop, the lush sounds and big reverb notes really grabbed me. They did it with regular guitars but I always heard it done more beautifully in my head with Pedal Steel.

I think there will always be room out there for pedal steel, but not necessarily in the first places you tend to look. From what I gather country music nowadays is almost the same as AC top 40 music. But it doesn't strike me as the place for steel guitar. But many of the new bands coming up in the indie world have a real reverence for the integration of sounds and feel into the music they make, and I always saw the steel as more of a feel instrument, there to add color and flavor to a composition.

I don't think steel guitar is remotely dead in my part of the world. In a certain sense, I think it's just being seriously discovered now in many quarters. But I think moving forward does prefer a lack of extreme mental rigidity about what is the 'correct' way to proceed.

Our lure.........Its the sound of the instrument that intrigues artists of all genres...It all comes down to "Can It be played to speak the language of any particular song?" Yes!

Yes, I think that is the trick - treating steel (or any other instrument) as just that - a musical instrument that can be shaped to the music, and not necessarily the other way around. However I admit that it is cool to sometimes pick music that plays to the obvious strengths of certain instruments. I agree that steel guitar indeed does have a innate sound that is naturally intriguing to many people.

I guess I'm not exactly an absolute 'steel guitar partisan', but view myself first as a musician. That's why I won't give up on guitar and other instruments to be 'strictly' a steel player. Whatever works for the music is what works, and I'm not sure I have enough years to throw at this to be able to shape steel guitar to everything I want to do. I sense that many newer players look at steel as one element in their arsenal of musical tools. I think (well, I hope, at least) that it's possible to do this without being a dilettante, but alas serious multi-instrumentalism does make heavy demands on time and dedication.

One thing I've noticed is at a jam kids will listen to me play my lap steel not necessarily because they like the old time Country style I play as much as they relate to lap steel because they seen and heard them in Rock and Blues bands. They usually ask me what the difference is between the lap and the pedal steel and if I can play any Blues or Rock. So I explain, then kick on the DS-1 and do my standard half dozen Blues riffs and I always get a compliment or two. So at least they recognise the instrument and it's difference from the pedal steel. And of course, the ask the difference between the two they have to know what a pedal steel is.