The Steel Guitar Forum

As long as some of you people keep accepting the change, it will do nothing but get worse.

By all means, if you know something that will have an effect, bring it on. But if you can't control something, you have a choice - either accept it or continue to flail away at it with no effect whatsoever. If it's outside your locus of control, you can't directly change it, and no amount of complaining will fix it. I really think that's just a waste of time and energy, or worse - constantly bemoaning everything that is current can make the old guard just sound negative and sour grapes.

I agree that music changes and the business is going to go where the money is. I also love old country and alt.country. We should go out and support people who are playing what we like, whatever genre it is. But I don't see why the CMA won't have one booth at the convention celebrating and promoting classic country. The current country music is different and more rock/pop than ever. So be it. But to intentionally ignore the history of music you are calling country is sad, disrespectful, and a slap in the face to the artist's who paved the way for today's stars. Come on, it's one booth. It's not like Dave is demanding that today's stars play trad. country. He is just trying to educate people about what has come before.

Defeatist attitudes never accomplished anything in life. Those who take action win. Marty Stuart is the beginning of the battle.

A quote from Willie Nelson (who may be the knight savior of country music, or one of the knaves that destroyed it, depending on your point of view), from his movie Barbarossa:

The Mexicans have a saying... "that which cannot be changed, must be endured."

"that which cannot be changed, must be endured."

Floyd, the Barber - Didn't Calvin Coolidge say that?

Andy - No Floyd. Calvin Coolidge didn't say everything.

Dave A. Burley wrote:My complaint isn't with todays so called country music. It is with the CMA, Country Music Association. I lived in Nashville during the sixties. That was the big era of Ray Price, Faron Young, George Jones, Webb Pierce and so on. I was backstage at the Ryman auditorium almost every Saturday night. I remember the tremendous respect that was always showed towards artists such as, the Fruit Jar Drinkers, Sam and Kirk McGee, Curly Fox and yes even Roy Acuff who was from a different era. The artists that had help build country music, although not in demand anymore, were still given the utmost respect from the younger artists. During the CMA's early awards broadcasts the legends of the music were most always in attendance and were recognized by film crews and the announcers. Sure enough..even Lonzo and Oscar, Cousin Jody and Del Wood. I doubt if there was one person there in the midsixties that didn't know who Jimmie Rodgers was and he had been gone for over thirty years. I was there...I seen it all. Today there is no respect from these young whippersnappers that are now running the CMA.
I would think that the main requirement to work for the CMA would be to know the history of who you are working for. What a slap in the face to Kitty Wells, the Queen Of Country Music, to not even be recognized by people that are representing the CMA. Lynn Anderson, Charlie Louvin, Jeannie Kendall......nope, they don't know them and even refused to let the booth that represented them at the Fan Fair be allowed to have a booth again this year after ten years of faithfulness to the real country music.
As long as some of you people keep accepting the change, it will do nothing but get worse.
Thanks,
Dave Burley

You talk about how in the '60s people at the Opry remembered artist who were stars 20-30 years earlier. That's fine, so why not hold the current CMA staff to the same, ask them if they know of Dwight, Randy Travis, Gene Watson, or George Strait, artist who had hits 20-30 years ago. Don't expect them to know about artist who were out 60 years ago. Kitty Wells first record came out 61 years ago and her last number 1 hit was 48 years ago, and she only had two number one hits(even though she was HIGHLY influential for females to follow). Do you really expect a 30 year old business person to know her?

Not everyone in the music business is a historian. I personally love the history of it all, but I don't expect everyone to be into like I am.

We can blame this one or that one, but we can't change the way it is. Bottom line buy and support what you like. I really don't care what you call country, I know what it is.. You know what it is.....so what!

p.s. Tracy, you made me laugh out loud! You sound like my dad.......

Lee Baucum wrote: Calvin Coolidge didn't say everything.

But he did say "same hen each time?".

Hey Kenny, kids 7-18 don't buy the music my friend. They steal it off the internet and the so called file sharing services like Limewire. The major heads of the Nashville labels wouldn't know a Country song if it bit em in the ass. It's not about the music that sells, it's about money hands down. Why do you think they call it programming? It's the same as brainwashing. If it wasn't for payola most of the artists wouldn't even be here. What you all need to understand is that it stopped being about talent years ago and started being about if you were a marketable commodity worthy of selling something for someone. The songs today are not believeable lyricly. When I hear some 16 year old skank singing about breaking up with her 10th boyfriend that month I can't relate to it because it probably never happened and lyricly it makes no sense (there's no hook)to the song for any of you out there that claim to also be top drawer song writers. Or when some 17 or 18 year old kid trys to sell me a drinkin song it doesn't work because by law he can't drink till he's of age. George Jones said once that you had to live through hard times to be able to sing about them so when I hear him singing "If Drinkin Don't Kill me Her Memory Will" I can hear the conviction in his voice and it comes across as being real and I believe every word. As an artist, all I want is a small piece of the pie. I write all my own stuff that is as much at home on top 40 radio like Alan Jackson is and it's real to boot. Stop bitchin about Faron and Price not being played on the top 40 channels cause it's not coming back. Hell, move to Texas, guys like Johnny Bush have had a whole career in the State of Texas and the only people that know who the hell he is outside Texas are usually fiddle & steel players. I even had one guy ask that had never heard of him if he was a Porn Star. If you're just a steel player you probably don't know exactly how the system works but I lived in Nashville 6 years and worked for Tim McGraw/Ty England/Opryland USA Country Music USA Show and a bunch of other artists and I've been there. I may add that I haven't listened to the radio for going on five years and sure as hell wouldn't turn on one of those bogus award shows and be subjected to that garbage. Ha! Support what you like and turn off what you don't, thats what the other knob is for on the radio.

PS, Lets outlaw all vocal tuning on CD's and see how ya all like those so called singers then.

www.wcedgar.com

www.myspace.com/wcedgar

...which was the basis for the term that became known as "the coolidge effect"....

I was a disc jockey at a country radio station when the CMA was formed and loved the idea so much that I joined immediately. But after a few years I could see the direction away from country music being taken by those who had the actual say-so, got angry and quit paying dues. Looking back, perhaps I should have kept my fingers in the pot and began making noisy complaints instead of quitting. Yes, I know it supposedly is all about the money but I also know those people hurt my favorite music badly. No, they didn't kill it because it is still played in places. But they but a big hurt on it and I still don't like it. Today's so-called country music is just 1960s/1970s rock. It was rock then, it's rock now. If you like rock, fine, listen to it. But I prefer my country to be played by guitars that sound like guitars and steel guitars, fiddles and pianos that do likewise. And I like the songs engineered where the vocalist is not covered up by those instruments so that I can hear the actual words of the song. And has far as history, yes I think that everybody associated with CMA should know about the stars of yesteryear. I haven't listened to more than a few minutes of local radio for a long time. Just long enough for it to wake my wife from sleep so she can get to work. I don't use radio as my alarm and I wish she didn't either because that noise wakes me, too. Like if if you wish. I don't! Oh, BTW, I love my country music but I also listen to the big band music, some jazz and great southern gospel. But I don't like rock and roll in any form, never have never will.

I love the past. I live today and look to the future in music and all things.
I'm thankful to beable to listen to everything. I try not to diss any music, it's a gift.......

I agree Theresa. I think right now is the greatest time in music. With a click of this little mouse in my hand I can hear all kinds of new music every day, and can listen to music recorded 90 years ago.
The access to so much great music, in a matter of seconds, has never been easier in the history of man kind. I don't see any reason to complain!

WC, you are right about the Payola. Our local "New Country" readio station was forced to be sold 4 years ago because of it. You'd have to pay someone off to play that crap.

In the '50s and '60s payola was useful to get the good stuff heard over the bad stuff. Now it's the other way around.

W. C. Edgar wrote: Hell, move to Texas, guys like Johnny Bush have had a whole career in the State of Texas and the only people that know who the hell he is outside Texas are usually fiddle & steel players. I even had one guy ask that had never heard of him if he was a Porn Star.

Okay, this the quote of the week.

Not going to get into who's country, and who's not. But it's amazing how something that sells, creates good taste, and is accepted as the norm, for change sake. But i know for a fact i am 100% right on one thing. When i turn on my local top 40 radio station WTCM Traverse City MI: http://wtcmi.com/index.html
After about 30 minutes of that noise, i start getting grouchy, and irritable. Suppose it's the blarring, distorted guitars doing it? Or perhaps the annoying female dj, with the fake southern accent? It's the strangest thing, because i can listen to a great Ray Price, ET, Ray Pillow, Dolly, Jim Reeves song on my ipod, and that doesn't seem to happen. I wonder...do you suppose... when i do listen to todays {country} music on my way to and from work. It might have something to do with my acute road rage?

If you notice now that they have thoroughly corrupted the music into ROCK everything has a B3 Orgen and a slide blues lap steel. Yeah, thats REALLY country! Its bad ROCK. I wouldn't whore myself to play that garbage.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... riod+music

- John

B3? Like on "Easy Lovin"? or "I Can Help"? Some of us have forgotten about the time the 16 y/o "skank" dumped us.

Kevin Hatton wrote:If you notice now that they have thoroughly corrupted the music into ROCK everything has a B3 Orgen and a slide blues lap steel. thats REALLY country!

Well Kevin my buddy, I can't agree with that, sorry. I was driving back from the Gettysburg Bluegrass festival this past weekend listening to Ricky Skagg's CD's blend of Country/Grass and well, there was a B3 nicely blended and fit perfectly.

It's not the Instrument, never is, it's how it's used. I happen to love a B3 blend into some arrangements and as far as the Lap Steel goes, I'm really on the other side. I have recently pulled out my 52 Fender Deluxe 6, re-strung it , tuned it to a Dobro tuning and will start using it on gigs next time out . Some of the best tunes for this instrument are the " Middle of the Road" category with a tad of drive. I don't consider myself "less" of a player for using some "drive", I consider myself being more versatile. Traditional Country ain't bad either on the 6 stringer', it's all in the approach. Our band plays "Hendrix to Haggard" and it all works, even Steel Instrumentals such as Last Date, so I say, play it all, bring everything you got, if the set list goes from Hey Joe on the Tele thru vintage Fender amps to Last Date on the Steel, I kinda think it makes everyone happy, I know I am !

Our minds are wonderful things, we are allowed to open them or keep them closed. It's not the Instruments, never is, just to repeat myself.

It's us....

Okay...so I'm going to stir up a hornet's nest here.

What do you think about Gangstagrass?

I agree with Alvin and Theresa that easy access to music of any type - good, bad, or indifferent - is better than ever right now. I don't remotely have enough time to even listen to everything I would like, much less play it. The gnashing of teeth over country music is largely about the mainstream commercial aspect of the music biz and the fact that what we now call classic country has been relegated to a period style, much as discussed in John's 'period music' thread. This isn't restricted to country, but other classic formats like old-school periods of blues, jazz, rock and roll, soul/R&B, and so on.

Don't get me wrong - I think the CMA would be very smart to give some space to classic country music and not burn that bridge, which they seem hell-bent to do. I think as the younger demographic population bulge they are currently after starts to age and face the real-life problems we all have to face, many will get tired of superficial fluff and want to dig deeper. But the marketeers don't seem to see it that way and I doubt there's anything I can do to change their mind. No doubt they have some Harvard MBAs chained up somewhere tellin' 'em differently.

In the meantime, I think we can just do what we can do - support the music we like by buying it and, when we can, play it out ourselves - country, blues, soul/R&B, rock and roll, whatever - this shouldn't be a war between classic American roots music styles. There's no reason a B3 organ can't work playing "A Way to Survive" - OK, if you want to present it as a strictly authentic 'classic country music' period piece, you won't do that. But not everybody insists on always working in a strictly period context, and there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes I like to play period pieces as such, and sometimes not. I really enjoy it when modern stylists respectfully update older styles. I have always thought Dwight Yoakum was a good example of that - torn jeans and B3 organ notwithstanding. I think Martina McBride is another good example, and there are plenty of others.

But I also think the major inter-generational conflict thing that has been going on for at least the last century has led to a tendency by some to spit in the face of the past. I can also understand that to some extent and, like many, went through a period like that in the late 60s and early 70s. I think the best approach to deal with this is to not be overly reactive against things I see as negative, but to be supportive when I see positive development.

No matter how we handle it - the torch will always get passed to new generations and they will take it their own way. IMO, older folks can either constructively try to help them or be run over trying to stand in their way. My opinions, as usual.

The joke is on all the musicians who play all them cover tunes to keep the big sample ballot pamphlet heads in change.The Artist can only speak up that much..................... and gets nothing done for others but themself right out the doors. Unless the own them doors in a under cover business deal.For the application to this matter is close your ears & eyes and none of this will matter.Nashville runs Los Angeles and New York runs them all.Now all them hit men can't swim.But,they sure know how to cut you off in life.Come election time change all them people out you don't like who is running the CMA or the ACM and what other Radio Stations you don't like to turn off.Mu rderer/Criminal......Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.....Just try-ing to help fit your mind at ease. Now who did I get too?

I tend to not listen to anything written later than 1940. My violinist doesn't even usually get as far forward as 1900!

::Yawn::