The Steel Guitar Forum

Kevin, the setup costs would be the same if 5 steels were built each month, or 25 kits shipped each month. Selling more units lowers setup cost per unit, increasing profit.

Labor cost per unit does not diminish in that way.

There have been many changes since Emmons sold a kit: videos can lead the buyer through building more effectively than just print instruction.

Your sales estimates are vastly optimistic. Sounds like it would be a good project for you. Why don't you do it.

Rich
A discussion I had with a builder at the latest SWGSA show in Phoenix this past week yielded this piece of information: just the parts for a D-10 typically are over $1500 (e.g. finished endplates 250/set, pegheads 60 each, etc. et al.), dealer cost.

To send out 25 kits every month? $37,500 in parts, not counting shipping. Every month?!? Most builders don't have the parts for 25 guitars they're planning on assembling laying around the shop, much less available for shipping out in kit form.

Extrapolate that out one year, assuming the company could accumulate that many parts. That's 300 steel players purchasing kits the first year. How many will do that the second year? Or the 3rd year?

I don't believe there are enough steel players in the world to make that happen.

I don't know what the future of World Class Steels dba Carter Steel Guitars will be with the tragic demise of its founder and driving force. I certainly wish Ann the best in whatever her plans may be. But there are new builders entering the marketplace all the time. In the last few years Rains has come on strong, Star is making inroads and will again once Mark Giles recovers more fully from his health problems, Fred Justice is making a great guitar, Frank Carter is making a guitar that received a lot of attention in Phoenix, the Infinity guitar. Gary Rittenberry and the Jackson Brothers both are creating a fine product. I'm sure I'm omitting some builders as well and for that they have my apologies.

In all human endeavors, things come and things go, depending on many factors. This is simply the way markets, and the world, works.

I've given this some thought, and what I think steelers really need are more people who can set up and repair steels, regardless of make or model. Any guitar can be fixed or upgraded, and if parts are no longer available they can be machined. Manufacturers come and go, but any defunct brand of guitar can be set up or repaired.

It's a sad thing that we lost John. You have to feel for Ann as this will put pressure on her no matter what, as she wants to do the right thing to her loyal customers and handle the loss of her husband. What an emotional strain that must be.

When I read Ann's comments on all inventory has been sold, my first thought was, what happends to repairs? I have a D-10 ten years old that I would like to have someone go through it and put it back to factory setup. The crossbars slipping out and I'm not the one to do it. You know what I mean? There may be others who can but it isn't me.
I enjoyed my Carter, but I need something to play with and at my age it's got to be a Steel Guitar, so I'll be looking for a replacement.

I don't know if Bud would consider it or not, he is in retirement?

I'd like to see the Carter stay around.

Chet Force

Leslie Ehrlich said :

I've given this some thought, and what I think steelers really need are more people who can set up and repair steels, regardless of make or model. Any guitar can be fixed or upgraded, and if parts are no longer available they can be machined. Manufacturers come and go, but any defunct brand of guitar can be set up or repaired.

I agree Leslie !

Chet, are you in Florida full time now? If you ever get back up here, I could take a look at your guitar. It's probably not a major job. I've had a Carter D-10, an older model, for about a year, and like it quite a bit.

Bill

Thanks Bill.T Yes, we are full timers here in Florida. Like the notion that we don't have to shovel.

Well I got it apart and wish I hadn't. I decided last night that there was no time like the present to try my luck, and luck is what it is for me.

I wish I had a few of the nylon washers that are suppose to be there. It is tricky getting the face plate back on (aligning all the bars into the holes). They all seem to short.

You'd think that they would still have the crossbars and the plastic's. I can always wait until the new company (who ever that is) opens. I'm in no hurry except for being anxious to play it.

Thanks again for the offer, stay warm and dry.

Chet

It is tricky getting the face plate back on (aligning all the bars into the holes). They all seem to short.

You're right about that Chet! I had the same problem but eventually I got everything lined up again. It took me a good half hour I bet and I kept wishing I had more arms and hands.

I agree with Leslie about that "lack' of services for PSG. What we need is an "online" detailed study course. I'm aware that the Carter site has something like this, but skills need to be developed and honed, by all of us who play this "beast".While it's not "rocket science", all too often, it's easy to end in disaster.
Rick

Well I got it back together and it's just hummin. No need for anything, just an adjustment to keep the crossbars from slipping out. I have gotten more intimate with my Carter and should have done it along time ago. There is a trick to getting the crossbars all in line while fastening the faceplate. Gave me a chance to spit and polish as well. Must admit, there was few hours it was doublfull. But now I'm ready, bring-em on. [/u]

John Fabian tragically and most surprisingly to most of us leaving so prematurely, was as we are now led to understand neither sudden nor a total surprise to him and those closest to him. As little as I had the pleasure to know him, I would be very surprised to find out, that he who was a person who was so defined by his sense of organization would not have made arrangements for his company to meet the faith he intended it to.
I think, we will just have to follow Ann's advice and wait and see what John had in mind.

As probably over a thousand of satisfied Carter customers (over 2000 pro level guitars must have been produced!), I too would certainly hope the company will continue to exist.
Carter steel guitar has made innovative quality instruments available at a very reasonable price to everybody. The company, whilst quite large in production numbers, has remained personable and gained and maintained a reputation to treat every and any person knocking on their doors like some other companies only were reported to treat artists with endorsement potential.
John also was a pioneer in leading steel guitar business onto the wave of the internet.

I personally believe that the well established design of their guitars is so consistent, tested and re-tested and thus replicable that it would be hard for me to believe that they could not have found somebody to take on the production to the future if the company still was economically viable in these current hard times, which I fully expect it to have been given their size, design effectiveness and being so well established.

Yet, we shall wait and see what April will bring on but I would be tempted to bet or at least feel justified to hope that the "long" wait is an indication that something may be in the works.

Kits? I have discussed the idea of kits with several people in the "industry", John included.
John, besides having been a great designer and planer, was quite good at numbers too. The bottom line question which remained difficult to positively answer was the economics of producing and selling PSG kits.
It's not just that most of the "profit" of building and selling pedal steels seems to come from the assembling (basically a paid job opportunity), but a good part of that gets "worn off" again from servicing, even if it's only over the phone or by answering e-mail questions. That part would likely become so time consuming with KITS that, as sale numbers would increase, such a company would have to employ a full time service department "eating up" all the initial gross gains from the accelerated sales of "discounted" kits (when compared to finished guitars). I could imagine a non-pedal steel guitar as a kit... but not a PSG.

I still can't believe what happened.
But now, time has come to give it some time and see what will come next.

... J-D.

His might shed some light on this ..
fro Bobbies News Letter...
Hello fellow players,

Here’s some steel guitar news. The way we hear it now is the Carter company and the three levels of steel guitars that were manufactured by Carter, are now gone and totally out of business.

Ann Fabian has sold the rights to sell parts to an newly formed Canadian enterprise. We hear that there will not be any more guitars built, but parts will not be a problem to obtain for any guitars that have already been sold.

Of course, shipping to and fro across the border will be no easier than it ever was. This is no fault of anyone in the steel guitar business, but thank goodness it’s Canada instead of any of our friends across the seas.

One of the main things about Carter is that along with GFI they seem to have been among the very few manufacturers with enough production to provide a good selection of new instruments on showroom floors. As far as I can see no pedal steel vendors have much inventory of new instruments available. If you aren't into wait times it is sparse pickings and will surely get worse with Carter and Magnum out of the picture. Is any other company positioned to crank out enough high quality instruments to fill that void? It doesn't look like it.

Hey David I would rather wait and hear the "facts" from the horses mouth than place to much faith in Bobbe's newsletter embellishments ! I've seen him make a few other recent comments which turned out to be wishful thinking on his part.

Paddy
I believe this link to a thread and a statement by Ann Fabian herself would qualify as a legitimate announcement of closure. No need to disparage Bobbe unnecesarily on this topic.

Hi Herb - yes I read that but it still doesn't say anything about the business being sold ..I took it as a necessary step due to John's passing.
I wasn't disparaging Bobbe either, although I always take his comments to be with his "salesmans" hat on !