Can't keep my pedal steel in tune!

Instruments, mechanical issues, copedents, techniques, etc.

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Don Brown, Sr.
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11 May 2004 12:01 am
Location: New Jersey

Post by Don Brown, Sr. »

Tony,

The only thing I disagreed on, was what you'd said pretaining to the "Modern Day Changer." Regardless, they are no different, in the way they work, from back in the day. The fingers still rotate on a shaft, and the shafts need to be lubed from time to time. So modern day, or older age, remains the same in that respect. I simply found that as an odd statement to make. :D

I think you might not have read Josh's other post to where he answered the other questions.

He had said on the opening post, that he'd only been having the problem for the last month or so. He then posted the following:
I guess I should have mentioned that the strings are about 4 days old (and the correct gauges) and that I bought the steel new.
I read between the lines of what he was saying. Since he was having problems, and did everything he knew how to do, (including he'd just changed the strings) I knew exactly what the problem most likely was. It's still the most common problem among steels, in not returning true.

I'm sure you'll hear, just tighten up the return springs and it'll pull the finger back to where it needs to be.

It will! But! It won't solve the problem of why they/it needed to be tightened more in the first place.

Some people only deal with symptoms. I deal with the real problem that causes the symptom to be as they are in the first place.

Get rid of the cause and the Real Cure has been accomplished. Simply covering up the cause by tightening return springs, does nothing for the actual cause for needing the return springs tighter to do their job.

I'm willing to bet, that there are many pedal steels, right now, that are so over tensioned on their return springs, when the real culprit was a lack of lube getting down to where it needs to be. Or, for the complete lack of lubrication in the changer assembly, as well as, in most other areas too.

From now on, all Josh will have to do from time to time, is put a drop of oil down between the fingers, as well as for the pedals, etc. And he'll continue to have a great playing steel.

Now, how about if Josh had simply tightened up return springs, as was suggested. Just think on that for a moment or two. And sure, it probably would have FORCED it to play ok. At the expense of doing Horrible damage to the changer, and wearing many other parts out along the way too.

Springs simply do NOT stretch if they're any good at all to begin with. A spring has to be way over stretched in order to lesson it's tension. But evidently lots of folks don't know just how valuable a drop or two of oil really is, as well, cleaning out the dirt and debris (after a few years of playing) that collects over time, and then relubing. That's how you get a pedal steel to last a Real Lifetime.

A lack of lube, can otherwise destroy an otherwise great playing machine, and turn it into one that isn't so great to play, in very short order.... Don

PS: I'm not an artist, and working with MS Paint, isn't the easiest for me, but here is something that may help folks who don't use this process for winding their strings, when putting on new ones. Absolutely no slippage when done right. I couldn't make the tapered shaft look right, so you'll have to read what I wrote on the one pic.. Hope it helps someone. PS: It'll work for most other stringed instruments as well.

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Larry Baker
Posts: 3346
Joined: 2 May 2008 3:15 pm
Location: Columbia, Mo. U.S.A.

Post by Larry Baker »

To quote the great Ron Elliot, none of them stay in tune, that's what the tuning keys are for!!!!!
Mullen G2 SD10 3 & 5 The Eagle
NV112 amp===Earnie Ball V.P.
Patrick Rusert
Posts: 42
Joined: 11 Jan 2010 12:25 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Patrick Rusert »

Don Brown, Sr. wrote:Josh,

You said:
I'm am having horrible trouble keeping my steel in tune. Its a Carter Starter so I know it isn't the cream of the crop. But, I haven't had the first problem with this until about a month ago.
What you didn't say was: Did you buy it new or used? That means a whole lot. Meaning, if you bought it new, then you know if it's ever been maintained (lubed every so often) properly for it to be able to work right, or not.

You're saying that after you tune it, it stays in tune for a couple of songs, before it goes out of tune.

Admittedly knowing nothing much about the Carter Starter, pedal steel. However, if you have nylon tuners at the end plate, with no pedals down, and no knee levers activated, make sure each of the pull rods have some free play at the Changer end. If they don't, there needs to be some free play to allow the changer pulls to return.

If you are sure you have the correct size strings on, I'd do this:

Back off each of your nylon tuners, until you have free end play.

Next, back off all of your strings to relieve the tension on the changer.

Then use light machine oil, and put a few drops down between each of the fingers, to be sure it gets down to the places it needs to be. "You can always wipe off the excess." Next, work each of the fingers, quite a few times, (by hand) to help get the oil into the areas it needs to be.

Put a drop of oil on the cross shafts at each end, and also, on the pedals, to make sure everything is working free, with no drag. Do the same with the knee lever pivot points, or where anything rubs against anything else in the (knee levers) area.

Place a small drop of oil, where the strings come over the Nut (rollers and axle shaft if so equiped).

Next, tune your steel Open using the tuning Key Heads.

Check to make sure all the nylon tuners are still backed off far enough to have free play. If any of them doesn't still have free play, back them off and retune those strings open at the Key Head again.

Note: "There has to be some free play on each of the pull rods, with pedals up, and no knee levers activated."

After you are sure that all is ok in that area, then go ahead and tune the pedals and knee levers.

Start by tuning the pulls that have the most travel, "the smaller gauged strings first" As in: 3rd String G# to A, then tune the 6 String G# to A. Likewise, with the 5 string B to C#, then tune the 10 string B to C#, etc.

After tuning them, make sure with the pedals up, there is still some free end play with each pull rod, at the changer end. If there is, she should play like a new one.

PS: I didn't get into pedal stops, nor any of that, because there shouldn't be any need to, as long as they are the correct string gauges, and you haven't adjusted any of that (if there are any on the Starter models)?

Let us know how you make out..... PS: There is nothing so bad you shouldn't be able to take care of it yourself........ Don
A very belated thanks to all the posters in this thread, especially Don. This was a big help!
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Scott Appleton
Posts: 1100
Joined: 24 Mar 2003 1:01 am
Location: Ashland, Oregon

double lock string installation

Post by Scott Appleton »

It is absolutely important to reverse wind the end of the string as indicated to "lock" the string in place.
This is especially true for the plain unwound strings.
Not so much for the wound ones especially the bigger ones say above 24's. Also on the lube question .. my
74 Emmons would not do very well without a good dose
of slick stuff once and a while say every 2 or 3 months.
but that aint a "modern Steel" now is it.
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