The Steel Guitar Forum

Double-10's are here to stay. The C6th tuning was here long before the E9th. This should say something. The E9th incorporates several tunings within itself,including the great ole C6th.

I payed an extra 1000 bucks for my arm rest. I'm keeping it!

I couldn`t play a gig without C6. I learned C6 before I learned E9. Folks seem to really dig it when the band is swinging and your hitting those fat chords. I know you can play 6th chords on E9.
To brother Ricky, who sez "just bring a lap steel, thats what they used to play western swing" I`d have to suggest "how bout I bring a D10 and not use the pedals?" Man, if I could play E9 like Ricky does, or non-pedal like he can, that would be fantastic!!

But I can`t. I also know people hire me because of my C6 playing, and it sets me apart from the E9 only players who haven`t figured out how to get that 6th sound that works so well for western swing and rockabilly.

It`s not C6 vs. E9, it`s C6 AND E9. I never did understand the anti C6 mindset.

You can call it the "jazz tuning", "show off tuning" or whatever, but retro bands and the folks who follow them really dig it.

I don`t play jazz, and I love E9.

Maybe its not for everyone, but I couldn`t be without it.

I really wish I knew more about playing C6th than I do. I'm self-taught and basically a E9th'er. Hearing stuff like the Big E hitting that 10th string with the boooowah pedal, sure makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
And take the song "NightLife". Johnny Bondz's E9th version is OK, but theres no comparison when that tune is played on the back neck with C6th.

Nick

I can't play either neck worth a hoot but I love both of them and if I am not allowed to use the C6th........then I'll pack up and go home.

The C6 neck has been paying all my bills for the last 6 months. I would be homeless and hungry without it.

I love my C6 neck, I use it on around 5 songs in the set, wouldn't be without it!

Whats rack and barrel? Sounds like a pub here in the UK!

I play 99% C6 with the Tony Harrison Band. Here's a sample from a recent gig at the Broken Spoke. This is a Cindy Walker/Wills tune. Half of our material is Western Swing, the other half Porter/Mercer/Sinatra/Darin/Bennett/NKCole.

Nice Herb! Ok, that does it...I'm movin' to Texas!

What's the surf like?

Herb that was great. Is your course on c-6th hard to learn. I can play a small amount but its hard for me to learn from courses. Is yours easy. Thanks Jimmie

Herb has some of the best material out there!

Why don't you all just get a U-12 and be done with the issue?

Oh, BTW, in my last post, I meant Cole Porter. Not Porter W. I hope that was clear.

Rick
I've never been a surfer, even in my CA '60's days, so I couldn't tell you. The parts of the TX coast that I fish don't seem to be surfer-inhabited, but there's lots of TX coastline on the Gulf of Mexico.

Jimmie
I think my C6 course C6 Texas Style Vol. 1 is pretty accomodating for starting out on the tuning. I'm working on another one now, matter of fact. The two courses based on my albums are more challenging. Better to work through the first one before hitting the Texas Dance Time and Rancho Rhythm Roundup material.

Erv
Thanks, as always.

Bob
Because they ain't the same. Like a Chevy Avalanche can't do all the jobs a pickup truck can, though it can function like one for many purposes. The Ford Ranchero and Chevy El Camino were very cool vehicles IMHO, and I'd love to own one 'cause I'm a vintage-type guy, but they weren't pickups and they weren't sedans. Likewise the Avalanche, and whatever models GMC and Ford offer nowadays are nice vehicles, but as I said earlier...

I can understand guys who play and enjoy U-12 guitars for their own personal variety of reasons. What I don't understand is why some U-12ers feel other players *should* go the U-12 route if they're not so inclined, unless it's some kind of self-validation. Not referring to you though, Bob.

Eplanation of rack-and-barrel system.

http://julianwinston.com/music/rack_and_barrel.php

I don't think anybody SHOULD do anything! I don't have an opinion because I never owned or played a D10. I am told that everything from the 6th neck is there on a U-12, although there is less room to experiment and add multiple sets of little used knee levers. Is this not so?

I know that when I sit down to play on the E9 side of a D10 on occasion, I really miss the extended bass and other features of the U-12. When I try the C6 it seems identical...

If I'm not mistaken, on a universal you don't really have a C6th, you have a B6th.
Is this correct?

I watched a fellow up here play a beautiful Carter uni tuned to A6, which as it was explained to me is like the e9 with ab down. His ab drops the strings, doing the opposite of what mine do. Anyways he was hitting classic e9 licks, jazzy c6 stuff, western swing sounds etc. It was very nice to hear, It was impressive what he could do with it. And I am envious of his light weight rig!

Personally I need a d10 to separate things so my limited brain can concentrate on the different styles. I use my c6 for western swing references, Hank Williams covers that seem to come up in every band I play (which I am very thankful for), and for rockabilly and rock songs. I rarely use pedals other than 7 and 8, but the others are nice when on the rare times I need them. I also dont have much use for the jazzy licks with the bands I play with, which is fine because I suck at that.

....that a6 uni thing blew me away though.

When I play a multi-neck, non-pedal steel, I usually have an A6th tuning on one of the necks.
A very nice tuning and as with any 6th tuning, you always have a minor chord on hand at all times.

Yes, the U-12 E9 tuning goes to a B6 when the E's are lowered. I meant that relatively it is the same as a C6 tuning a mere half-tone away. And by the way, for guitar players, the fret locations of common "landmarks" on an E9/B6 are more intuitive than on a C6 neck (in my opinion...)

As long as there are people who think ouside the box, like to experiment, like the deep base tones, the D10 is here to stay, because of the convinence, You don't have to buy two guitars, carry two guitar, decide which one to leave at home. I'm curious if those that stick to the C6/A6 or whatever were always into some type of mischeif when they were young

Ok.... I'll weigh in. After getting past the "intimidation phase" of C6 I have fallen in love with it! About 35% of my playing time is spent on the C neck. And about 90% of my practice time is C6. I find it allows you to develop a more personal voice more easily than E9, where you have to train yourself to get away from the AB pedals to hone your voice. I understand the weight thing - but I'll carry my D-10's!
Jim

I've read that Paul Frqnklin gets lots of "C6th sounds" from his E9th neck and lots of "E9th sounds" from the C6th.

I have an S-10 because I couldn't afford a D-10, and still can't. But my fretted guitar playing is very much jazz influenced, although I've never considered myself a jazzer. I've spent a lot of time considering to a 6th style tuning, and even more since learning about Tom Bradshaw's "inserts" for triple raise/lower on an MSA Classic.

The Nashville neck has been the "money neck" for some time, but now many Nashville producers and artists seem to think they don't need PSG at all. So the future of PSG may be in other genres of music, and the E9th may become the "oldfashioned" neck because it sounds "too country." Sneaky Pete deliberately avoided sounding too much like a pedal steel. b0b is always thinking about alternative copedents. Sacred steel tuning is getting installed on a lot of back necks, and it doesn't require a degree in music theory. In ten years, the Nashville tuning might be considered "the extra one," but needed for playing oldies.

Weight is a real issue. I don't know if I'd want to carry an old MSA Classic D-10 around, unless I had a very athletic wife. But a modern light weight doubleneck would be nice, especially one that's easy to reconfigure.

I believe that in some cases single necks may sell more than double necks, and I assume it's because they're less expensive and easier to approach for getting started. I don't know about the rack and barrel complaint because I have never had one, but I know that a lot of Professional owners love them. Sure you can get by with one neck, but why not have two? I started on an S-10 E9 guitar, then went to an S-12, then settled on a D-10. I never felt as comfortable on a 12 string neck as I do on a 10 string neck, but I did want to extend the guitar, and I really like having the second neck. It was easier for me to start on an S-10 because I could afford it and I didn't understand how people could drop multiples of $1000 on a pedal steel (now I understand and my wife tries her best to understand ) . Also, having to deal with one tuning was good to start with. I would like an S-10 for a light weight gigging guitar, or to have a cool model like an LDG or single neck wrap around, but I would not want to be without a D-10 as my only guitar. C6 is a fun and beautiful tuning, but if you want to try something else, you've got a second neck to play with. My only single-neck at the moment is a Fender 400: I think that's a neat compliment/alternative to have with a D-10.

for the Rack and Barrel link. I have never seen this before. I remember my LDG had a similar looking thing as an adjustment on the 1/2 stop on the second string. Them guitar must have weighed a ton!

David Hartley