Right Hand Position

[Matthew Dawson]

Thanks again everyone for the replies. What I've gathered from this thread on the right hand is this:

1. I should go as far as I can with the Newman material and make a mindful effort to learn the style, but not force my hand and arm into really uncomfortable or unrelaxed positions for any length of time.

2. Even if I end up not using this exact technique, the time spent concentrating on the right hand will pay off eventually.

3. There is no single right hand technique but I should work for a balance of relaxation and mindfulness.

What other right hand instruction do you guys know of besides Joe Wright's? I'd like to eventually get a bunch of detailed perspectives on this and look at each one as a different tool.

[Rick Winfield]

When I start out with a song, I usually begin "trying" to use the Newman method, but somewhere in the piece, I can't seem to maintain the "knuckles up" position, in a passage like 10,5,3. Usually I palm block, using my middle finger blocking on the higher strings, and sometimes my thumb,on the lower, in close quarters like 3,4,5 i.e.
"Buds Bounce" & Brumley's "Apple Jack"
Maybe I SHOULD look in to Joe Wright's methods.
Thanks to all
Rick

[James Morehead]

1. I should go as far as I can with the Newman material and make a mindful effort to learn the style, but not force my hand and arm into really uncomfortable or unrelaxed positions for any length of time.

Not sure what you mean here by "not force". Anything I've gained in techique came from forcing my way through until I "got it", and it BECAME comfortable and relaxed. Nothing was "comfortable and relaxed" starting out. If it was, everyone would do it.

[Tom Campbell]

Went to the SE Texas Steel Club meet/jam yesterday. I made a point to observe the right hand of the "pickers". No one had a "textbook" right hand position as described RHA. I think after a period of time, one settles into the form that works best for them. This is not to knock the RHA method. I think RHA is a good starting point, but not the "only-way-or-the-highway" method.
Most of the players at the meet/jam are veterans of the steel and I would settle for any one of their RH positions.

[James Morehead]

Well said Tom. We all reach a point where we say "good enough".

[Bill Moore]

Those that have great talent can get away with using less the optimum technique. I'm not in that group, so I have to try to gain every advantage I can. Correct technique will make it easier, and make it sound better then poor technique. Jeff Newman stressed this because he knew that it worked. Sure it's difficult and takes time to master, but I think the effort is worth it. A lot of the best players use a picking style very close to Jeff's. The "first knuckle pointing up, edge of the hand in contact with the string" position. Yes, there are slight variations in the way people do it, but that is the common thing. Check youtube videos of Buddy Emmons, Hal Rugg, David Hartley, John Hughey, and look at Jeff's too, you will see the connection. The fact that some great players use a different style does not mean that Jeff's style does not work. Just my opinion, but if someone does not have the patience to master this, it's going to be very hard for him to learn to play. If someone has enough talent to skip learning the basics, more power to him!

[James Morehead]

Well said Tom. We all reach a point where we say "good enough".

So to add to this, Where is "good enough" for you?

Bill Moore, Great comment. I'm out of here.

[Gary Lee Gimble]

like on the image earlier in this post, look kind of cramped, restrictive and tense to me.

Hi Georg S.!
I can assure you, the only time I feel cramped is when I've exceeded my daily recommended fiber intake. Restrictive? Well, yes and no. Yes; due to a limited command of theory & steel guitar language. No, 'cause I've fooled enough folks that have hired me to pick. Tense? Only when wifey posts a weekend honey-do list on the frig when she knows I'd rather be steelin.
gLg

[Dave Magram]

I don’t wish to prolong the Great Hand Position Debate, but I’m concerned that some players are going to become very frustrated trying to learn the One Correct Right-Hand Position--because, in my humble opinion, it doesn’t exist!

With all due respect, I believe that many people are “barking up the wrong tree” by worrying how “correct” their hand position LOOKS. It seems to me that the goal is to SOUND good, not to LOOK “correct”.

1. When it comes to right-hand technique, LOOKS don’t matter--only SOUND matters. Although the hand positions of Emmons, Green, Rugg, etc. all LOOK different, these great players all SOUND good--clear tone, crisp blocking, precise timing, and so on.

The reason that Paul Franklin’s hand position LOOKS different than Tom Brumley’s is primarily because these two great players have very different blocking methods-- Tom was a palm-blocker, and Paul is a pick-blocker.
Who is “correct”? They both SOUND great, so both are “correct”, and LOOKS don’t matter!
(I am talking about how their right hands look, not their handsome visages.)

2. There is no One “Correct” Way to position one’s right-hand.
Even among players who primarily palm-block, their hand positions will LOOK different, because everyone’s hand is a different size and is shaped slightly differently. Think about it...
Since string-spacing on steel guitars is pretty much the same, this means that the fingers of someone with large hands will be attacking the strings from a slightly different angle than someone with small hands. And because people have differently-shaped hands, they must find different ways to block--little finger straight out, fingers curled under, etc.

Hal Rugg’s hand position LOOKS different from Lloyd Green’s, because Lloyd extends his little finger, and Hal curled his fingers under his palm to block.
Whose hand position is “optimal” or “correct”? Obviously both players are, since both SOUND great.

There is no One Correct Way of hand-positioning for everyone!
The only “correct” way is what SOUNDS good--and works for you.

3. How your hand LOOKS is simply the means to the end: the SOUND.
Buddy Emmons SOUNDS great, as does Jay Dee Maness. But their hand positions LOOK very different. The same is true for Doug Jernigan, Bobby Black, Joe Wright, and so on. Whose hand position is “correct”? Obviously, they all are- because they all SOUND great!

(Jeff Newman was an excellent teacher, but seemed to have some fairly strong opinions about what was “correct”. For example, he once told both Jay Dee Maness and Bobby Black at one of his workshops that they were playing incorrectly in terms of right-hand technique. I only wish I could play as “incorrectly” as those two guys! )

So instead of worrying if one’s hand position LOOKS like the way one instructor (Jeff Newman) recommended many years ago as a starting point, I’d suggest examining the SOUND you are producing:

-Are you getting good tone?
-Are you blocking cleanly?
-Are your picks adjusted to fit how your fingers attack the strings?
-Are you able to play up-tempo while keeping good time?
-Does your hand feel comfortable, rather than ache after playing?

If the answer to these questions is “Yes!”, then you have found the “perfect right-hand position”-- for YOU.
And don’t worry about how it looks.

- Dave

[Donny Hinson]

Georg, I've never seen anyone use picks shaped the way you have yours shaped. Nonetheless, I wouldn't say it was "wrong", as long as it works for you. The important thing to remember is there's always more than one way to do things. Often, differing physiologies force players to do things differently than the majority. That's fine, as long as you're not doing something that holds you back. Newman was a good player and a great teacher. Still, some of the things he professed don't work well for all players. Choose those techniques that work for you, and you'll likely be a better player as a result.

Personally, I'd never recommend that any student follow the teachings of a single player. Borrow what works from a variety of players, and meld that into an amalgam that is your own.

[David Doggett]

Georg, I've never seen anyone use picks shaped the way you have yours shaped.

Reece Anderson's picks look about like that.

Regarding how much to bend the finger picks and how to hold the picking hand, there are two extreme schools of thought, and everything in between.

Some people bend the tip of the pick all the way around the fingertip, so the tip of the pick is almost touching the tip of the fingernails. These people seem to palm block a lot, and flatten their hand by keeping the first knuckle straight, and severely bending the middle and outer joints, so the nail section of the fingers is completely turned under. They often curl under the 4th and 5th fingers in the same way, and use them for blocking. The hand is held flat and parallel with the plane of the strings. Some very top players use this position, and play way better than me. However, I find that position cramps my right hand, and the backs of the picks snag if you try to back stroke any strings for strumming (not used much with 10-string E9, but used on C6, Extended E9, Uni, and Sacred Steel).

Other players leave the picks unbent, or curve them only slightly. All the knuckles and joints are bent slightly, so the hand and fingers form a semi-circular curve, like they are holding a tennis ball. The hand is angled about 45 degrees with the plane of the strings. The edge of the palm and extended little finger are used for palm blocking. These players seem to finger block a lot. Lots of very top players use this position (and they can also play way better than me). This is a much more natural and relaxed position for me. It is similar to the position piano players use. My old piano teacher use to have me ball up a piece of paper and have me hold it to demonstrate the proper arch. With the picks more straight, you can strum strings with a backstroke.

You will see many very good players that are somewhere between these two extremes. So this is obviously a matter of personal preference that you will have to experiment with and work out for yourself.

[Barry Hyman]

Boy, you guys sure can worry something to death! I tell my students there is only one rule: You must be comfortable and having fun.

Having fun begins as soon as it starts to sound good. But getting comfortable (psychologically as well as physically!) can take a lifetime...

All you guys who worry about the "correct picking technique" are keeping yourselves from having fun and from being comfortable! Relax! Just play the damn thing! Throw away your tab and your videos and improvise! Does it sound good? Did it hurt or tire you out unnecesarily? Trust your instincts more than teachers. (And I'm a fulltime teacher!) There are a hundred million ways to make a pedal steel sound good!