For E9/B6 Universal Players Only

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 26 Jun 2009 1:02 pm

b0b, I haven't mastered posting a copedant on the Forum since you changed the old way so I'll just tell you what mine does. I changed to this a few years ago after playing a fairly stock E9/B6 setup.

My basic tuning is a Universal but I guess you could call it an entended E9 except the 2nd and 9th strings are tuned to C#. It looks like this high to low.. F# C# G# E B G# F# E C# B G# E ...

LKL raises the 2nd string C# to D# and lowers the 10th string B to A#. I use this in the normal way on E9 but on B6th I use it sometimes with P4.

LKV....lowers string 5 B to A# for normal E9 use but also I use this with my P6 on B6 to complete the chord. I can also apply this lever and LKL at the same time if I need both B's lowered together.

LKR...raises strings 2 and 9 C# to D for E9 and for the IV7 changes on B6

P1....Brumley pedal, raises the 7th F# to G#

P2....E9 "A" pedal raises strings 5 and 10 a whole tone.

P3....E9 "B" pedal raises strings 3, 6, and 11 G# to A.

P4....raises string 5 B to C# and string 6 G# to A#

P5....lowers string 7 F# to F and lowers string 12 E to C#.

P6....lowers string 9 C# to C, lowers string 10 B to A#, and lowers string 12 E to D#. "BooWah pedal without the normal B to G# change.

P7....raises strings 1 and 7 F# to G for both E9 and B6 uses......

P8....Mooney pedal, raises string 4 E to F# and is activated with the right foot as is sometimes P7.

RKL....raises strings 4 & 8 E to F......

RKR....lowers strings 4 & 8 E to D#

Thanks...........JH in Va.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 26 Jun 2009 5:56 pm

Code: Select all

Zum U-12 Copedent

Analysis:    F    X    G   Frkln A    B    C  Bwah   P5   P6   P7    E     D
String#     LKL  LKV  LKR   P0   P1   P2   P3  P4    P5   P6   P7   RKL   RKR
                                                                    Lock
1   F#   ---- ---- ----G#--- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ---- ----- ----
2   D#   ---- ---- ----E---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --------- ----- ----C#----D----
3   G#   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----A---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ---- ----- ----
4   E    ----F---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----F#--- ---- ----F----- ----D#---- ----
5   B    ---- ----A#--- ----A----C#--- ----C#--- ---- ---- -----C#--- ----- ----
6   G#   ---- ---- ----F#---F#--- ----A---- ---- ---- ---- -----A#--- ----- ----
7   F#   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----F---- ----- ---- ----- ----
8   E    ----F---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----D----- ----D#---- ----
9   B    ---- ---- ---- ----A----C#--- ---- ----C---- ---- ----- ---- -----D----
10  G#   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----A---- ---- ---- ---- ----- ---- ----- ----
11  E    ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----D#---F---- ----- ---- ----- ----
12  B    ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----G#---C#--- ----- ---- ----- ----

All the changes shown are relative to the open strings. When the E-lever is engaged, raises on those strings split with those lowers, and other lowers are unaffected. I frequently keep the LKR D#=>E loosened, and sometimes do the same with RKL D#=>C#. At some point, I will probably add the second change D#=>D=>C# on string 2, and will no doubt add E=>F on string 11 to LKL and B=>C# on string 12 to P1.

I rarely use the RKL lock, but it's there. I may well add a 9th pedal, P8, put the standard C6 P4 on P4, and move the BooWah to P8 where it is on all my D-10s. This is the way the guitar came to me, but if I can fit that 9th pedal under there, it should be pretty easy to make the changes, and would probably cause me less confusion when switching back and forth between universal and D-10.

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 27 Jun 2009 3:22 am

My present looks like this. (Note: string 14 is a 135 electric bass string but it sounds a bit muddy 'cause the scale is too short for a low E.)

It would be nice to get comments and improvement suggestions on it.

(Some more pics at http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/steel_picker/)

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 27 Jun 2009 5:13 am

Lowering E's...I notice that most of you lower the E's with the RKLeft.. I spend so much time with that change continuously engaged (along with various other "Newman Style" 4-8 pedals) that I put it on RKRight so I could simple flop my right leg out and rest it comfortable engaged while still easily operating the volume pedal.

Is there any particular reason I've missed why so many prefer to engage toward the center of the guitar instead of to the outside which seems so much more comfortable to me? (I've never played anything but a U-12 so I don't know if this practice simply derives from double neck techniques....)

My reason is to allow my right foot easy access to the pedals. I can still use both feet if needed. Lowering the Es on RKR takes the right foot completely out of the picture.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 27 Jun 2009 6:58 am

My approach is the opposite

I use RKL to lower E's to D# to free up my LEFT foot -- where the sixth tuning pedals -- plus five more knee levers can be combined with it more easily (IMHO). I HATE using both feet on the pedals (so I DON'T). I've always used 4 or 5 levers on my left knee and prefer lowering E's on the opposite.

I've basically used the same setup since 1976 when Bud Carter built me my first new guitar. I've always used a '0' pedal -- early on it was G# to G -- now it is the Franklin pedal change. I have never had the C6 pedal 6 change (E on 4th, D on 8th) on a pedal -- always had E to D only on 8 -- on one of my LKR's. I really don't hold down the RKL for extended periods of time. When I play C6 I spend a lot of time on P6 (the IV9 chord, relative to the key of the open tuning). On the U12, that P6 position is either the open tuning (letting off the E to D# lever) or lowering E to D on 8 (also letting off the E to D# lever). I play a LOT of sixth tuning stuff and used to tune open to the 6th tuning -- both Bb6 and B6 -- but most of my gigs are country so I changed to E9 as the open tuning.

There's a BUNCH of stuff about this on my website (click below) if anyone is interested.

Here's what's on my main guitar now. I'm having a Show-Pro built with essentially the same setup (big surprise).

From the top down, I have 9 strings of standard E9; from the bottom up, I have 9 strings of standard C6, plus the choice of the equiv of D OR G on top, PLUS a high 6th tone (as some 12 string C6 players use).

Danny Naccarato · Post by **Danny Naccarato** » 27 Jun 2009 8:16 am

Here's mine (note the heavier gauges on the bottom 3, thanks to Bobby Bowman):
[tab]

# Gge Note LKL LKV LKR 1 2 3 4 5 6 RKL RKR
1 12 F# G# G G
2 15 D# D
3 12 G# A
4 15 E F F# Eb
5 17 B Bb C# C# C#
6 20p G# A A#
7 26w F# F E
8 30 E F D Eb
9 36 B C# C
10 46 G# A
11 58 E D# F
12 76 B G# C#

[/tab]

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 27 Jun 2009 10:49 am

Larry, could you explain pedal 1 for me? RP

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 27 Jun 2009 5:27 pm

It's just the top half of the Franklin pedal with the F# to F added. I don't use the 7th string unison with the G# to F# on the Franklin pedal and I wanted a way to have 3 consecutive half steps (E F F# on 8 7 6). There are several cool things you can do with it.
One example: http://www.larrybell.org/mp3/Windy.mp3 -- it's the final lick of the solo

Here's another: http://www.larrybell.org/mp3/Brain.mp3 -- it's near the beginning of the soundbyte

There are other ways to get that (like when G# to F# is on a knee I can use P5 to lower 7 OR F lever with G# to G) but my setup doesn't allow those solutions. I sometimes loosen the nylon nut but usually just don't play the 7th string with that pedal unless I want the half steps for chromatic stuff like the examples. Actually on my new Show-Pro I'm putting F# to F on 7 and G# to F# together on P8 and I'm combining both octaves (4 pulls) on the Franklin pedal -- G# to F# on 6 and 10 and B to A on 5 and 9.

Yeah, I'm weird.

Randy Koenen · Post by **Randy Koenen** » 28 Jun 2009 6:42 am

B0B,you are correct...Jeff Newman did not use a LKR lever. I added it to give me the F# to G# raise on the first string and I also use it to lower my 6th string to an F#.

If I remember Jeff Newman telling me correctly, the reason for not using the C6th fourth pedal change is, you get the same move by letting off your E Lever on the Universal... thus the reason not to lock it in.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 Jun 2009 8:15 am

Jeff Newman was about 5'2"
The reason he avoided LKR levers was that his foot wouldn't reach the last pedal if he couldn't move his entire leg.

I have two LKRs and can reach all the pedals with either of them engaged.

We have to work within our limitations and capitalize on our strengths. Many like to 'follow the leader' but it's important to realize WHY the leader made the decisions that were made.

I started playing this tuning about the same time as Jeff, after I left Nashville in the early 70s, so I wasn't really influenced by his teaching. I am curious how releasing the E to D# lever gives you the same change as C6 pedal 4. The C6 change is a full tone and E to D# is a half. Can someone 'splain that to me?

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 28 Jun 2009 8:21 am

If I remember Jeff Newman telling me correctly, the reason for not using the C6th fourth pedal change is, you get the same move by letting off your E Lever on the Universal... thus the reason not to lock it in.

I'm missing something there - the normal C6 4th pedal change moves the 4th and 8th string A (6th notes) to B (maj7th notes). The comparable B6 universal change moves the 6th and 10th string G# (6th notes) to A# (maj7th notes). The E-lever lowers strings 4 and 8 from E to D# - so the effect of raising those from a B6 standpoint is to raise the Eb (3rd note) to E (4th note). I don't think they are the same at all. If it was that easy, there would indeed be no reason for anybody to put that pedal on the guitar.

Randy Koenen · Post by **Randy Koenen** » 28 Jun 2009 8:47 am

I stand corrected... Thanks for clarifying.. I don't play the C6h neck much...

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 28 Jun 2009 9:23 am

I think Dave Easley`s famous string "lever" raises the Es to F on the C6 ?? Releasing the Eb to E would be equivalent on the uni, B6 mode.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 Jun 2009 11:00 am

Actually, the E9 change that's most like P4 on C6 (A's to B ; 6th to Ma7 scale tone) is when you use F# to G# on 1 and 7 with A+B down. Two sounds dominate: the motion of the 6th tone up a whole step AND the adjacent tonic note with the associated dissonance of two strings a half step apart.

Danny Naccarato · Post by **Danny Naccarato** » 28 Jun 2009 7:48 pm

I think there is some confusion regarding the C6 Pedal 6. If you are referring to the C6 change that raises the upper E to F and the lower E to Eb, then some Uni tunings accomplish this by releasing the E lever and using another lever to lower the lower E (Eb) to D. I do this on my tuning (release RKR, while engaging LKR). Newman, however, might have only been referring to the upper E since he did not lower his 8th string E to D. He got that change by raising his 9th sting B to a D.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 28 Jun 2009 9:46 pm

Here is my copedent. LKR2 is over the 7th pedal and is used on the B6 tuning. That change is usually on a pedal. You can see the layout of the levers here:

Click Here