The Steel Guitar Forum

Not a big deal, Calvin, more like an annoyance.
Playing gigs with sometimes only 5 minute setup time etc. tends to teach you to streamline your setup.
One less thing to hook up is one less thing to hook up.
Just my personal opinion and experience.....

I'm with Olli - I hate plugging more stuff in. I have two Goodrich 120's and two old Sho Bud pedals, and I use the latter most of the time.

There's another issue - my amp rig (with its voltage-regulated power supply) is sometimes at quite a distance from me, and I'd have to start running an extension cord to my steel. Fuggedaboudit, the bands that I play with are a tangled mess of cables as it is. It does make a difference when you're playing in a band all the time. I almost always double on steel and guitar, and sometimes have other stuff too. I also sometimes have pretty serious time constraints to get set up - if there are a bunch of bands on the bill, it's pedal to the metal to get on and off quickly.

The other point is that I genuinely like the sound and feel of those old pot pedals, especially the Sho Buds. None finer, to my tastes. I've tried a helluvalotta volume pedals over the years, I use them for guitar too. I've owned Ernie Ball, Morley (optical version), Emmons, Franklin, a BMI, various Goodriches, the Sho Bud, a Fender volume/tone, and I've tried the Hilton. I could live with any of them, but I prefer simplicity.

i'm sorry but something is not making any sense here

you spend years perfecting your playing yet your not willing to spend 5-6 sec's pluging in something that will keep you from sounding scratchy ?

if someone says its a cost issue thats something i can understand, but not the issue of pluging it in
and really in the long run ( with a few exceptions) i think the Hilton or the goodrich version of it is no more expensive because i have a pot type goodrich (laying in a drawer ) that only lasted 2-3 weeks so it doesn't take many of those to pay for a Hilton

so i will just say this : if you want to take a chance that the pot volume pedal will last 25 years go for it ..but the last 2 that i bought sure didn't. but i have had my Hilton for 3-4 years with no trouble

the way i see it , its not IF your going to spend the money... but WHEN

Dave

some of you guys must have super human hearing and before you say its just me that can't hear it, my old teacher still uses the goodrich pot volume pedal and soon after i got my Hilton i heard these comments that one sounded better so we had them both hooked up and and we tried to hear a difference in them but we failed to be able to tell any difference

maybe some of you do have super hearing,
i can hear a difference in a sho bud and a zum but not in the volume pedals
maybe it does have something to do with all the effects some of you use

Plugging stuff in is a drag. Especially when you're in the front of the stage and all the plugs are in the back. I won't use effects anymore that use power supplies. I've noticed that they sometimes add buzz in clubs with bad power. But I have no idea if Hilton pedals are prone to this; I suspect they are not. FWIW, I got a Goodrich L10K and it's been great so far. Sounds good with guitar, too, unlike the unbuffered pedals which can rob your high end.

The way I see it. EVERYTHING about this instrument is a hassle. Carrying it around, setting up etc. One more thing to do is no big deal for me.

I try to arrive around 2 hours before downbeat, and take my time setting up, and grin and bear it.

We CHOSE to do this. We can always switch to a more portable instrument. If you want to play steel, you have to put up with the hassles of setting up. It goes with the territory.

But getting back to the issue of scratchy pots, it seems clear that the pots Goodrich has been using recently are not as good as the ones they used back when I bought my pedal. But they can be replaced with better ones that don't get scratchy. End of problem.

So it really comes down (like everything else about this contraption) to personal taste. Some of us like Goodrich, some of us like the Hilton, Some like something else.

If you are interested in buying anything, a steel, an amp, a volume pedal, an effects box, etc., the best thing to do is try several out and see which one you prefer. YOUR opinion is the only one that counts.

Mike Perlowin wrote: But getting back to the issue of scratchy pots, it seems clear that the pots Goodrich has been using recently are not as good as the ones they used back when I bought my pedal. But they can be replaced with better ones that don't get scratchy. End of problem.

Yep. The Dunlop Hot Potz (aka Bradshaw pots) seem to last forever. I`ve had them in two Goodrich 120s for about 2 years now without a problem. BTW I have the Goodrich LDR too, but I prefer the tone and flexibility of the Freeloader/120 combination. I don`t use the 120 because I`m cheap...

Calvin Walley wrote:i dont see how that would make any difference ..you still have to plug in your amp ..whats the big deal?

It's not a "big deal", Calvin. It's just something we prefer not to deal with. An extra outlet, an extra cord for someone to trip over (or break), and another piece of gear we can't just fix ourselves.

don't need no more stinking plugs...

i agree...when you play out all the time, simpler is way better!

Calvin - with amp and EQ settings exactly the same, each of these pedals do indeed sound a bit different - I can clearly hear that. But I think it's very easy to adjust the EQ on the amp and/or effects to equalize the nominal sound, and there are several other things going on.

First, there are differences in the amount of pedal travel. Second, each pedal has its own unique volume on-off curve. Third, there is a bit of treble loss with the pot pedal as the volume is decreased - if you plug it straight from the steel to the amp. But if you use the 3-wire connection system or use a good high-impedance buffer directly into the amp, that can be minimized or eliminated. Personally, that bit of treble rolloff works for me - it gets a bit of high treble end out of my singers' ears if I'm padding at low volume, and gives me a bit more sparkle when I push harder. I consider that a good thing. But if I don't want it, it's not hard to get rid of on, for example, any Peavey pedal steel amp built starting with the Session 500.

All this comes down to preferences. I personally have tried a bunch of pedals over a long period of time on both guitar and steel, and have come to the conclusion that I can get what I want out of a simple pot pedal, and I like the way the Sho Bud and Goodrich feel best. Unless I feel there is a compelling reason to have an active volume pedal, I prefer those passive ones. It appears that the Dunlop/Bradshaw pots are a good alternative to most of what's out there, so I'll get my lifetime supply and be done with it. I'd rather play than fool around with volume pedals.

The way I see it. EVERYTHING about this instrument is a hassle ... I try to arrive around 2 hours before downbeat ...

Agreed, this instrument is more hassle than most others (drummers excepted). But I almost never have two hours to fool around with stuff. My normal MO is to arrive anywhere from a half hour to an hour before a gig. But sometimes it's more like 15 minutes - I do other work for a living, and the reality is that I frequently am flying around from one thing to another. If I stay focused and bring a minimal rig - guitar, pedal steel, gig bag with Pod for guitar, throne, one clean steel amp, and a small rack of steel effects with a voltage-regulated power supply - I can usually be set up in 15 minutes if nothing goes wrong. Everything except the Pod and volume pedal are pre-wired in the rack. I won't add anything else to go wrong.

For players doing shows with multiple bands on a very tight time schedule between sets, getting down to the absolute basics is essential. I've played shows where there were only 5 minutes between bands - I had to be set up beforehand, move everything into place - and showtime - bim, bam, boom.

YMMV, no problem. But I don't understand why anybody would question another player's decision on what to use for a volume pedal. It either works or it doesn't - the proof is the final sound, not the technical specs of the pedal.

I use a pot pedal because I like the sound better than active pedals. I've also found pot pedals to be more reliable in the long run than active pedals. If you have a battery, it can go dead. If you have a wall wart, you can lose or forget it.

Every wire that you have to hook up adds to setup time. Sometimes setup can be frantic! This is why I often use the small Williams pot pedal that drops onto a pin bracket on my pedal bar. I can wire it up off-stage and just carry the guitar on and plug one wire into an amp. Ready to pick!

It's really a hassle if you have to find power for a volume pedal. Then you're carrying around a power strip and a wall wart, when you might not need either of them. I only ever count on having one electrical outlet available to me, because for about 25% of gigs that's true.

I use the Williams pedal for fast setups, and a Goodrich 120 for recording or casual playing where I know I have the time. The Goodrich feels a bit more comfortable to me.

I've never had a pot pedal fail suddenly without warning. Wish I could say the same for active pedals! You can hear a pot going bad, or feel a string that's starting to slip. You have plenty of time to get around to fixing it. With active electronics, a battery dies and it just stops working. Or some component gets toasted and it just stops working. There's no warning. It can happen on stage and your whole rig goes dead.

Oh, and did I mention that I like the sound of pot pedals better? Some things just don't need "improving".

Have any of you guys seen those paca-seats with power strips attached to the side? I know I saw one, but I don't know if it was manufactured that way, or the owner attached it himself.

It seems that's the answer for players who have a lot of stuff to plug in. (I only have my Pod and power amp.)

Dave Mudgett wrote: I don't understand why anybody would question another player's decision on what to use...

Dave, we're steel players. Do you really expect us to be rational about stuff like this?

Especially OTHER PEOPLE'S stuff?

Because I preset my delay and reverb on my Amp.
All I have to do is plug my steel in and I'm off.Only one cord. Maybe some would call it being lazy but I consider it being inovative.
I have been working on this idea for two years and now I think I have perfected....Simple

Musicians? Rational? That goes for me too, even though I teach math and logic. Everything in its place.

It's no biggie, but I just don't understand why anybody thinks that what works for them should be the gold standard for anybody else. I actually don't think it's a point of logic - what feels and sounds right to a particular person is not necessarily a point of logic. I don't decide what music, guitars, amps, accessories, or anything else I prefer by logic. I play it - blam, I either like it or I don't. End of discussion. Anything I say beyond that is purely a post-mortem analysis, which may or may not be useful to help me understand the basis for my preference.

Logic can be useful to narrow down the search for things I might like. But never to decide what I do like.

Dave Mudgett wrote: I just don't understand why anybody thinks that what works for them should be the gold standard for anybody else.

Nevertheless, everybody does. When I was in college, one of the music teachers proclaimed that the Beatles didn't have any musical talent. This teacher was into opera, and according to her, anybody who sings any other kind of music is clearly a talentless hack. (I dropped her class shortly after that.)

I vote Hilton. While budget must be a consideration, save for it you will love the darn thing

I'm using a Zum pedal with a Goodrich bracket for my Carter SD10. I like the Zum because it is shorter than most pedals, and fits into my pac a seat. I just nabbed a ZB pedal off Craigs list, it is way smoother than the Zum, but it is too long to fit in the seat with the goodrich bracket. I also have a Carter starter pedal, I think I'll sell it since I got the ZB, but it works just fine. With a NV 112 and 3 cord setup,and a Ibanez delay pedal(for a buffer), there is no loss of highs, so no need for a more expensive pedal. JP

I recently became reacquainted with an ancient Emmons drop-pin volume pedal.... put a new Dunlop pot in it, and I really like it ! It's admittedly not as smooth in the sweep as more modern pedals, but somehow it keeps me more conscious of bad habits like pumping.
- John

...but I just don't understand why anybody thinks that what works for them should be the gold standard for anybody else.

Probably because they read on a very popular forum that, in order to sound really good and be "accepted", you have to use THIS bar, and THIS guitar, and THIS type of amp, and THIS pedal, and THIS type of cord, and THIS speaker, and THIS pickup, and...well...(you get the idea).

The sad part is that some players do eventually buy into this sort of malarkey.

If you like the pedal you are using, go ahead and use it. For me, it's the Hilton. I own 2 pot pedals, an Emmons and a Williams, I have owned a couple of Goodrich pedals. I would rather use the Hilton. I like the way it feels, and that I can adjust the tone if I want to. I carry a 12 foot extension cord, with power strip in the back of my amp. Plug the amp, the Hilton and the power supply for my effects into it. It just doesn't seem that difficult to me.

I'm a liberal! I agree with everyone!... I wore out a Dunlop pot in about a year of having it plugged into my regular, 4 to 6 hour-a-day six-string practice rig. It was in a Goodrich, for whatever that's worth. I do a "manual tremolo" thing a la "The Sunlit Path", Mahavishnu Orchestra, that's hell on pots. I started doing it in 1974, so I've worn out a pile of the old DeArmond VP's, now I wear out Dunlop pots. I have a Hilton in the shop, I sure hope it comes back soon.

(I wear out stainless steel frets too, don't believe everything you read.... nothing wears out if you set it on a stand and admire it all day).

HILTON!!

I've been using Goodrich pedals for 30 years, and they work fine for me. When I play gigs I have enough to "plug in"... 4 stomp boxes, a digital reverb, and the amp. I do Not want one more thing to plug in. I'm trying to simplify, not complicate.

If you like the tone of a pot pedal (attenuated highs), and don't mind dealing with the pot issues and the string mechanism, then they are simpler and less expensive. But an active pedal like the Hilton is simpler than using a matchbox or the three chord hookup. I already plug my amp head and one or more effects into a power strip. One more item to plug in is trivial. I love the accurate tone of the Hilton, the adjustable tone control (allows me to match it to my pickup and amp), the smooth action, and the reliability (several years with no glitches). It's worth every penny. I have two, one always packed in my gig bag, and one always set up in my practice room.

Good discussion. Maybe there is a bit of laziness on my part in not wanting to plug in a volume pedal. Probably is. Oh, well. I don't know, do Hiltons have wall warts or do some of their models have AC-style plugs? I gotta say I really dislike wall wart equipment.

I always like reading David's contributions. Smart guy. Certainly knows a lot about tuning! But I noticed David said he has one VP at home and one at the gig. I learned the hard way. I always take two VP's to a gig. I learned that lesson the hard way - twice! My VP went south and I had no replacement for the rest of the job. The second time was the last time. Now I take two. My seat will hold two of 'em stacked on top of each other.