If YOU use "UPS" to ship with YOU need to read

[Glenn Suchan]

John Allison wrote:

You have no claim at all with UPS. Whoever shipped to you - manufacturer, dealer, regular Joe - owes you every penny of your money back or an identical instrument delivered in good working order. The shipper has to make a claim with UPS, get the package back and decide whether it's worth it to take on the task of pursuing a claim (it's often not).
You shouldn't have to do anything except have the item and it's packaging ready for UPS to pick up. It's the shippers problem 100 percent.

John, this isn't entirely correct. Claim responsibility is dependent upon were the title to the goods transfers. For example, if the title of the goods transfers at the seller's location (F.O.B. Shipping Point or Origin) that means the buyer owns the product during shipment. In such a case, the buyer needs to take up any damage claims with the freight company. If the title of the goods transfers at the buyer's location (F.O.B. Destination), yes, John, the seller will need to take up the damage claim. This is important because, with F.O.B. Destination the seller has a covenant with his customer to deliver the goods, regardless of the damage in transit. In such a case, and in advance of a final disposition with the freight carrier, the buyer may have the right to request a refund for the sold goods (especially if they are a total loss and not replaceable); or request the seller to arrange for repair and/or replacement of the goods sold. NOTE: All of these details need to be worked out and acknowledged by BOTH parties PRIOR to sale.

With either choice, I don't think I'd like to have a shipment handled by UPS.

Gary, best of luck with your dealings in this situation. You have my sympathy.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

[Daniel J. Cormier]

I use everyone UPS, Fedex, DHL and USPS they can all screw up on any given day. Have never had a problem getting my claim paid from Big Brown. On the other hand ( Randy Travis ) with the other guy's It's like having a tooth pulled without Goof Gas.

[T. C. Furlong]

At my company, we use UPS most of the time. We have found UPS to be fairly reliable. We don't use UPS insurance. We use a third party insurer and have had a good overall experience. They are called Parcel Insurance Plan or PIP. They are operated by Brown & Brown Insurance and underwritten by Farmer's Fund Insurance. Also they are about half the cost with a very good claim payment history.

Just in case inquiring minds want to know.

TC

[Randy Gilliam]

Thanks TC That Is Good To Know about The Insurance,Randy G.

[Jim Sliff]

Jerry - just FWIW from personal experience:

1) I never use discarded manufacturer's shipping boxes to ship guitars EXCEPT Taylor boxes - they use a "floating" system that is really unique and amazingly protective. But other major manufacturers ship commodity-item instruments (i.e things like LP Studios, Epis, "vanilla" USA Strats, Standard Teles, etc) in minimally-protective boxes. They figure the difference in packaging cost vs the number of damaged guitars and factor the damaged percentage into the cost accounting system. So unless you found a custom-shop box or something along that line, it's a crapshoot - you cannot properly reinforce the case with a normal guitar shipping box - they're...ahem..."cost effective".

2) Les Pauls - the "Standard", "Custom", "Studio", SG etc - suffer from what is half-jokingly known as "Les Paul disease". The running guitar-tech gag is that there are two types of Les Pauls - ones with repaired headstock breaks, and ones that *will* be repaired. It's incredibly common. I NEVER ship any kind of Les Paul with strings at tension and without the entire neck and peghead reinforced front and back with wood or (preferably) steel rods of some sort, and the whole assembly packed tight so there can be no flex at all. My older son has had his broken twice (he bought it as an already-repaired "new" guitar, then it was knocked off a stand); my younger son's Epi slipped when leaning on his little Spider II and went *snap*; and I've had every single one I've ever owned (about 9 or 10) break, none due to my actions - one actually snapped sitting in the case in a closet! A very well-respected local tech says it's the single most common major guitar-repair job - as inevitable as Martin neck resets. Gibson has gone to different volutes over the years, but most of the "sturdy" ones were hated by players...so they've always been in a lose-lose situation. Oddly enough, I haven't seen as many issues with "clones"...but then a gain I don't come across too many.

As far as where it was sent after being damaged, that's in the shipping contract. If a claim is filed, it goes back to the shipper, whether the claim is valid or not (I'm not saying, by the way, that it was badly packed or that you did anything wrong at all - I don't know exactly how it WAS packed. I'm just advising what I know about manufacturers and shipping boxes and how to help prevent damage caused by an inherent problem with the headstock/neck area of most Les Pauls.)

[Doug Tewksbury]

Could be worse...




To their credit, UPS accepted the claim, and refunded the full purchase price.

[Bryan Rankins]

I am sitting on a $12,000 custom archtop right now that was damaged when shipped via UPS. I packed it...so I'm pretty confident on the packaging job. Suspension box, Ameritage Custom case (built for the guitar, so it fits correctly), and padding under the headstock. They still managed to destroy a one of a kind instrument...and yes...the lawyers are now involved. Claim was denied right away, and after 3 appeals. It's not the shipper, as much as it is "their" insurance company. Thanks for the heads up T.C. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately we ship and receive on a daily basis, so I have to live by the law of averages.

[Bill Hatcher]

I needed a 12string acoustic guitar to work a 5 night show and play one song a night on it. I bought a $50 brand new 12 string acoustic guitar off ebay. Had it shipped from Calif to Atlanta..$15 or so. DHL delivered it. It came in a thin cardboard box...that was it. Nothing but a thin layer of cardboard protecting the top and the back....The guitar was in perfect condition. Not a scratch on it!! Go figure.

I did the concerts. The conductor liked the sound of the guitar...go figure.

I gave it to a kid in the neighborhood a few weeks later. Disposable instrument.

[Paul King]

It is awful to see the pictures of damaged guitars. I guess that I have been fortunate. I have bought guitars and different gadgets with UPS doing the shipping amd never had any damage. I would imagine with the amount of deliveries they do the percentage of damage is very small. However, that does not help anyone that has received a damaged product. The best thing to do when shipping is pay that few dollars and get plenty of insurance on the product being shipped.

[Gary Lynch]

What I do when shipping is package the item like it will drop at least four feet on a hard surface. That includes the ends and corners. Most all damage I have seen is because people do not take packaging as seriously as they should.

The fact is, at times, the contract workers on the night shift in the huge transfer stations could give a crap about what they are doing. Also they do fall off conveyors and once and a while out of the truck as well.

Instead of me getting pissed off and calling UPS or FedEx employees morons, I just stay cool and package my item like it will get the crap beat out of it. Almost every box I receive has damage to the outside of it. It may be slight but rarely have I received a box that does not have some damage of one kind or another.

Local UPS centers will package the item and THEY are 100% responsible for the damage if it occurs. It cost a lot more but might give a person less stomach acid in the long haul.

[Tom Pettingill]

What I do when shipping is package the item like it will drop at least four feet on a hard surface. That includes the ends and corners. Most all damage I have seen is because people do not take packaging as seriously as they should.

This is so true ... I always think back to that old Samsonite commercial with the Gorilla
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ZeIoLz8FE

What I like to do is use styrofoam insulation panel to line the box first. It comes in 4' x 8' sheets and is fairly inexpensive.
It adds a lot of rigidity and crush resistance.


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