The Steel Guitar Forum

hey guys, it's hard to get on these days but I must make one correction. The set-up Mike posted is correct except for pedal 8. That pedal also raises string one (E) to F. I'm fortunate in that Curly left me his MCI guitar when he passed.

Thanks for pointing that out Johnny. I corrected the error.

The 2 changes I got wrong were both correctly listed on the cover of Tom Bradshaw's 2 LP set. I misread them.

Bad eyesight sucks.

..

If you love C6, the Curly DVD, available from Mike P, shows the "master" in action at 2 different concerts, and is worth every penny !
Rick

BTW, His name was Harold Lee "Curly" (no E) Chalker. It's a thing with me. Just like the people that put an A in Ernest Tubb, or Ernie Tubbs or Hal Ruggs or Buddy Edmonds. Makes me scream. :0

On Curly's set up, shouldn't pedal 10 raise strings two and three and not be lowering one and two?

Johnny Cox wrote:BTW, His name was Harold Lee "Curly" (no E) Chalker. It's a thing with me. Just like the people that put an A in Ernest Tubb, or Ernie Tubbs or Hal Ruggs or Buddy Edmonds. Makes me scream. :0

Dumplin'
Don't get me started on folks writing about Joaquin Murphey!

Dave, if you want to raise two and three go ahead. Curly lowered one and two.

Just curious since the setup looks a bit altered from what seems to be the standard, which it what I like to see. Thanks for clarifying.

I may try that on my Fender 2000 for kicks.

It seems to me these are two of those seemingly redundant changes on steel that actually aren't so redundant.

It's true that the end result of the two changes are the same note though on different strings. Curly's change in motion, however, is the sound of a major third interval (C E) being lowered to a minor third (B D) and back again. This couldn't be duplicated by raising a minor third interval (A C) up to another one (B D), our typical C6 pedal 7.

And vice versa.

I could see a use for both pedals on a guitar, if it so fit someone's style or repertoire of chops.

Everyone must remember that when Curly laid out his tuning and set up there were no standard pedal arrangments. I my mind there still are no standards. People talk about Emmons Standard or Day standard. That's just the way they set up their guitars. They were inventing as they added pedals and knee levers. The Es to F lever was created by Lloyd Green. No direspect to Paul Franlin, but everyone talks about the Franklin Pedal, no one ever talks about the Green Pedal. There were no charts, or forums or guitars on showroom floors in those days. When Curly came to Nashville he didn't even have E9th until he got his first Sho-Bud. That's the guitar on the cover of Big Hits On Big Steel. The record however was recorded on a Fender 2000 with no knee levers. He used the Day split because it made more sense that your foot naturally rocks outward. Stand up try and turn your ankle inward then outward and see which is natural. I have searched for years to be able to have everything in one guitar. Curly, Buddy, Jimmy, Reece and more. The E9th is easy. The C6th is the hard part. After studying Curly, Buddy and Reece for years I have finally come up wit a tuning and pedal set up that has 98% of all their changes. It takes 12 strings, 6 pedals and 5 knees. Now don't think for a minute I can play all that stuff but it's all there. Curly could have moved a couple things around and eliminated some of the duplicate changes but as he was adding ideas he was doing it on Fender and early Sho-Bud guitars that just simply were hard to change so he added. I actually showed Curly on paper the modifications that he could make and gain new changes on the duplicated pedals. His answer was, I'm used to it this way and I already play better than anyone else so why
should I change? Some of Curly's seemingly egotistical statements were his off center
sense of humor. Now as to me getting on the forum and speaking with such authority. Many of you have heard tons of stories from this one and that one about how, when, why and where. Stories have a way of changing from mouth to mouth. I grew up from age 10 living within five miles of Curly, Buddy, Hal and Jeff. I swept floors at the Sh-Bud store from age 12. I speak with this authority because I was there and watched Hal experiment with tunings, and Buddy and Curly and Julian. I got to spend hours in their homes and at jam sessions with my heros. Hal, Weldon and Curly were like extentions of my father to me. I'm not bragging, I'm thankful and grateful for these years of my life. But listen to people who know not those who think. And there are many more than me, most of them are just tired of arguing on the forum. I'll use my stressful hospital stay and drastic change in medications as my excuse for my bluntness.

Guess I struck a nerve.

If your reply was to my simple question and statement about the "standard", I apologize. I was born in '63 and didn't get into steel until the late 80's. I wasn't born with all the steel wisdom and knowledge you have, plus the opportunity to hang with the legends of steel. All I have is the forum. That's why I ask questions. That's what the forum is for, right?

Most C6 tuning charts I've seen are very similar to each other with minor variation.

I love Curly's contributions to the world of steel and from listening I can tell he's one of the very few that stands out from the crowd.

No nerve struck Dave, you said,

[quote]On Curly's set up, shouldn't pedal 10 raise strings two and three and not be lowering one and two.[quote]

The key word was "shouldn't", that is what triggered my rant. And yes, that is what the forum is for. I simply answered you. I not only learned alot about playing from Curly, I also picked up a few of his not particularly great social graces.

OK!

It really did look like a typo to me. Just move the D and B down on the posted tuning setup and it matches a similar change on many of the other copedants I've seen. First time I've seen this tuning.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and knowledge.

Get well soon.
Dave

One thing I always thought was an important part of Curly's sound was his two low notes, A and D. Before I really knew much about his official setup, I accidentally stumbled into adding a change that kind've simulates his low end by lowering the low C to A and the F to D. I have this change on a pedal placed between the "Boo Wah" and the traditional pedal 7 (that I've always thought as the "Bob White" pedal BTW---am I correct in calling it that Johnny?)

I'd never want to do without that change now, even if it meant losing the Boo Wah.

By the way Johnny...we've been pulling for your rapid recovery out here in California! All the best Man!

Rick, I did that for several years too so I could have the D on top. I don't know who originated the Boh Wah pedal. I know that Jimmy Day and Curly always had it next to the pedal that is usually the 5th pedal these days so I put the F to D, C to A on pedal 4. I kept changing back and fourth until I built the D10/12 MSA now I have the D and G on top and F,D,A on bottom.

I confess that I've been guilty of misspelling Mr. Chalker's 'first' name. I would have thought there'd be no 'e' there, but I once saw someone's post in which it was spelled 'Curley' and I too hastily adopted the error!

As someone who has a surname that's prone to the same thing ('Rettig' inexplicably gains an 'n' and becomes 'Retting' all too often! ), I, too, am sensitive about such things.

Thanks, Johnny, for the correction - 'Curly' it is!

Thanks Johnny....I didn't make it very clear, but what I meant to ask was have you ever heard the usual pedal # 7 ( high C to D and A to B ) called the Bob White pedal?

But that would be highjacking this post, so I'll bring it up elsewhere.

Back to topic, do you ever miss the low C?

Photo from the back cover of the LP "Dick Curless-Live at the Wheeling Trucker's Jamboree" (Capitol ST-11119) showing the album actually being recorded. Looking at the album cover photo, it looks like Chalker's green Sho-Bud.

The record however was recorded on a Fender 2000 with no knee levers.

So was the setup on the 2000 similar to the one posted, with pedals replacing the knee functions? I would love to see a chart if anyone has time to post one, unless it is the same.

Thanks
Dave

Curly's use of pedal 10 sets him apart on his voicing. This change really shines when he plays "Satin Doll." Our Thompson pedal 7 just doesn't get the right phrasing like his does.

Dave, I know the 2000 had no knee levers so those changes didn't come until the Sho-Bud. As far as the floor pedals I don't know how they were set up.

Gary, you are right, the 7th pedal change doesn't sound the same because you lose the A note ( in open position).

I did a forum search and found Curly's 8 string Fender 1000 tuning from Herb Stiener:




I see some similarities!

Dave Z.
FWIW, those tunings came from Fender in the early-mid 60's and were typed on Fender letterhead paper. I got the document from Paul Graupp.