The Steel Guitar Forum

Jim Sliff wrote:

I was told by a psg builder & player that it was made 65-67 since it has the black iron pedals on it !

"I was told by" is where a lot of misconceptions get tossed around.

That builder/player is wrong.

A black pedal, short scale would officially be a 1964 - 1981 guitar.

In reality, it could be a 1963 to somewhere in the late 70's...folks who worked in the factory recall them still being in the catalog but not manufactured or shipped after '76-'78 or so,and the last ones were a mere handful made from leftover parts.

Jim i guess sence they were made from leftovers it could be any year ! It really dosen't matter, mine is in great condition & plays very good with a warm sweet sound ! I like the 400 !!

Marty - officially, 1958,although production actually began in '57 according to many sources.

That's what's so funny about "knowledgeable" vintage dealers selling '56 1000's. They look at the pot codes and voila - a date! Fender must have bought thousands of 1-meg pots in '56, because they show up over and over, even after other dates - probably some were stuck in the back of the bin!

Thanks Jim. That clears up the time frame for me. It seems curious that with the pedal guitar craze generated with the release of Slowly it actually took 3-4 years for other companies to jump on the band wagon. Must have wanted to see if it was just a one hit wonder. Any ideas who was involved with the R&D and building of the first Fenders?

Marty Muse wrote:Hey guys, excuse my ignorance and simplistic question but when did Fender start making pedal steels? I have seen a lot of different dates thrown around. Is there a definitive answer to this question?

They started making them in 1955. ("Making" is the key word, here.)

Hey Donny. This I, guess, is what is confusing me about this subject. There seems to be some conflicting information here, unless I am missing something. Did they "make" pedal steels before they started "producing" them? Did they make custom order pedal steels before they went into production? Who was at Fender at this time that was driving this thing? Jim said they started officially making them in '58 but were making them in '57, but you are saying they were making them in 1955. Could you buy one in 1955? I don't mean to nitpick. I'm just trying to see if I can get a clear picture as to Fender's involvement with the development of the pedal steel.

Marty, there's only conflict if you don't do your research and check your sources. (Note: "Produce" and "make" are synonymous terms, to me.) No, Fender didn't "custom make" pedal steels. Was Fender making the Pedal 1000 in 1955? Yes, definitely. Could you (or anyone else) buy one? Emphatically no.

The same type of "conflicts" also arise in the history of other things when people either don't do their research, or when they get strung up with symantics. Was Ford making a Mustang in 1962? Yes. Could you (or anyone else) buy one? Emphatically no. (It was an experimental prototype at that stage.) Now, Ford started full production in 1963, and the first 1965 Mustangs (termed '64 1/2 by many) were rolling into the showrooms by April of '64.

Now, if someone asks you about a date for the first Ford Mustang, whaddya gonna say?

Donny's right - but for sake of when one was made that someone on the forum might have, at the earliest it's likely going to be a late '57 or '58...and the first year they were in the catalog and price list was '58. So while they did "make" pedal steels in '55, they were not for sale, just like you won't find a '53 Strat...even though they DID make them in '53; a '64 Pro Reverb,etc etc.

There are always instruments, amps, whatever made before oficial release dates, often several years before. Many of them are also fundamentally different (if you could find a '52 Strat it would have a totally different and terrible trem unit...which is why Leo had THOSE destroyed!)

Re Hinson and Sliff's posts, 4/12/09, and possible dates for Fender 400 availability, I think 57-58 very likely. I bought a 400 fall of 1959 from Ethel Starr Studios in Fresno, CA. I hadn't been active with the studio for about a year or two, but my sense was these were newly available not long prior to 1959. Wish I had more factual information, but I remember this because it was a big deal for me to buy that guitar. I'd just graduated from high school June 59 and worked in the Forest Service that summer, had money from fighting fires, etc. I traded in a triple neck magnatone on this new thing, a pedal steel not long after I came down from the mountains at the end of summer.

My 400 was black metal case with the off white finish

I love all the details you guys know about these guitars.

Richard

OK, since this thread has already started to wander, can anyone tell me what year is signified by the white tolex cases my Fender 1000 came in? I recall that Fender cases were tweed, then brown, then white right before black. So I am guessing around 1963/64? It's the newer style with the Jaguar type pickups and sunburst finish, so this would then be an early version of this newer model? Any other features that would indicate a crossover model? It does have "silver" pedals, that preceded black, right?

My friend just called, and mentioned that the individual he purchased the Fender 400, from stated that it had 4 pedals and 1 knee lever. Could the rod in the picture below have been a knee lever?


Donny

Quite possibly. Fender never made or installed knee levers on these steels. The added "dingus" in the picture could have been part of a home-made knee lever assembly that someone added.

Matt Berg wrote:OK, since this thread has already started to wander, can anyone tell me what year is signified by the white tolex cases my Fender 1000 came in? I recall that Fender cases were tweed, then brown, then white right before black. So I am guessing around 1963/64? It's the newer style with the Jaguar type pickups and sunburst finish, so this would then be an early version of this newer model? Any other features that would indicate a crossover model? It does have "silver" pedals, that preceded black, right?

The white (bone) cases were early '60s, and only lasted a few years. But you can't really use them for accurate dating since they were sometimes swapped by dealers. (Fender pedal guitars didn't exactly fly off the shelves.) You're right, though, your guitar is a '63/'64 transitional model. I prefer that term over "crossover", since crossover was a Sho~Bud designation.

The most obvious "holdover" feature on your guitar is the chrome pedals, "long scale" pieces only briefly used on short-scale sunburst models.

I have the same model of 400,guy I bought it from 20 or so years ago,told me it was a 1965,it is model number 02548,making it 57 guitars before one listed?
Might be useful info... Graham