The Steel Guitar Forum

Oh, shame on me!

In a most severe case of copy and paste dizzyness I forgot to change the interval numbers
on Billy's f#9 tuning in my last tuning chart update. Please ignore and refer to the version below

I spoke with Herm Remington this morning and he confirmed that he first heard the inverted C#minor11th (F#13) tuning used by a steeler in a little dive in LA in the 40s. He asked him for the tuning and then perfected it in his own playing. He doesn't recall that player's name but said he wasn't doing much with it, musically speaking. Herb said this is the exact tuning he used and that he gave to speedy who used it on I'll never be free:

1. E
2. C#
3. G#
4. E
5. A#
6. F#
7. D# - PLAIN STRING PITCHED BELOW STRING 1
8. F# - PLAIN STRING PITCHED ABOVE STRING 1

I'm trying to wrap up my new book on steel & bottleneck tunings and the final piece of the puzzle is what the heck to list for Speedy's F#9. There's so much variation and everyone has a different opinion.

If we agree that Speedy later used a G# on top is this correct?

G#
E
C#
A# - PEDAL RAISE TO B
G# - WOUND
E - WOUND
C# -WOUND
A# - WOUND

Cool, thanks, Andy. I doubt that I'd ever bother with that tuning, that's for sure, but like Billy said, maybe someone with a T-8 could get some mileage out of it.

When Paul Bigsby constructed my four neck BIGSBY in 1956, I asked if he could put Speedy Wests' tunings on it just like Speedy had them. He told me before I rec'd the g'tar that he had set it up just like Speedy's and here's what I got: (Hi to Lo)

G# E C# B>B-FLAT G# E C# B

E C# G# E B-FLAT F# E-flat F# (7 & 8 chromatic)

E B>C# G#>A F# D>E B>C# G#>A E

Thanks Ray! That's very cool information. This forum is the best.

--Jamie

Ray Montee wrote:When Paul Bigsby constructed my four neck BIGSBY in 1956, I asked if he could put Speedy Wests' tunings on it just like Speedy had them. He told me before I rec'd the g'tar that he had set it up just like Speedy's and here's what I got: (Hi to Lo)

G# E C# B>B-FLAT G# E C# B

E C# G# E B-FLAT F# E-flat F# (7 & 8 chromatic)

E B>C# G#>A F# D>E B>C# G#>A E

INTERESTING:
Ray's LOWERED the B's to Bb... so it WAS and E13th based tuning! (Speedy's RAISED the flattened B (Bb) to back up to B with a pedal... the one he is seen most often on!).

Interesting too, that IF Rays was an exact copy of the tunings on Speedy's T8 Bigsby (allegedly #1 or #2), it already had a simple version of E9th on it!

... J-D.

So the question still remains:
Has anyone tabbed out Speedy's I'll Never Be Free Solo?

I've listened to it again and again and it's defiantly not "stock". It seems kinda unrelated to the rest of the song at times. It starts out walking up to the 4 chord and then sorta falls off melodically. It's hard for me to follow. Does it even follow the bridge chord structure? I'm not sure it totally does!

I love it but I don't know how to interpret it. It's beautiful. It's art.

Also it seems like we've netted out that Speedy's INBF solo tuning is:
1. E
2. C#
3. G#
4. E
5. A#
6. F#
7. D# - PLAIN STRING PITCHED BELOW STRING 1
8. F# - PLAIN STRING PITCHED ABOVE STRING 1

But how is this useful to the average 8-string player? I have this set up on my "exploration neck" of my T-8 but I'm still figuring it out. Is this what players call a rhythm neck? Because it doesn't seem to be set up for single note melody playing.

Thanks,
nate

Nate -

FWIW here's a C6 pedal tab attempt. Perhaps you can adapt the notes to your 8-string tuning. FF.

Andy:

could the Steel Player from the early 40's be Curly Cochran. Back then he was ahead of a lot of us but liked playing in the Bars down on Figueroa St. and Bartending in the day. Cdrly was a great Guy !

I keep noticing that most of the F#9
tunings listed here and elsewhere share these core notes

(G#) E C# A# G# E C# A# etc

If using a basic C6 tuning and the Es are switched to Ebs and thus each note is a half tone lower:

(G) Eb C A G Eb C A etc

I deduce that you have the same sound, could call it F9th (?) tuning, and channel Speedy West easily and quickly on stage for example. And if you are ignorant of the F#9 tuning like me, there is nothing to un-learn, and one neck serves two purposes.

If you do this on a C6 pedal guitar, you already have the F root to use on string 9, (also a half tone lower than F#). You have 9 useable strings if you want to fake it. But then I think there is a #9 chord already available from pedal 5.

Surely someone thought of this before me. I welcome your comments as I explore it.

Speedy West's so-called F#9 tuning was was actually an E6 tuning. It worked basically the same as the modern C6 tuning, where you have a pedal to lower the 5th a half-tone – allowing you to drop back two frets and get a 9th chord.

Because the early pedal steels could only raise strings and were unable to lower stings, Speedy tuned the fifths a half step down and RAISED the strings a half tone with the pedal. Playing with the pedal down was what he considered the "open" E6 tuning. For example, if he was playing an E6 chord at the 12th fret holding the pedal down, he could drop back to the 10th fret, let the pedal off, and have an E9th chord across all 8 strings.

Speedy played this E6 (instead of C6 or A6) to get a higher, brighter sound. Other players of that time did too, like Roy Wiggins. He also used the Bud Isaacs E9 pedal steel tuning, but the E6 is really his characteristic sound.

The tuning is just a simple E6 with a third on top and a fifth on the bottom, and of course the fifths tuned down a half step. If you're playing without pedals, I would think you'd just want to tune it to E6. Without a pedal steel, though, you won't really get all of it.

This is the way Speedy West himself described the tuning to me when I talked to him about it in 1989 – so I know its correct!

The tuning can be found here:
https://b0b.com/wp/copedents/speedy-west/

This tuning, minus the two bottom strings, and with what's indicated as P1 and P2 are what he had on his Bigsby, front neck. The middle neck was the Bud Isaacs tuning, also with two pedals (the same as what's shown here, minus the top and bottom string, with what's indicated as P5 and P6). The inside neck was tuned to E13 with no pedals.