The Steel Guitar Forum

Pete Finney wrote:Thanks Ben...

But I gotta say if you've been working with Dan Baird it might be a minor miracle if you can still hear at all...!

Are you talking about how loud he plays or how loud he talks... cause both will get ya!!

Gotta love some Papa Baird!!

If memory serves me correct, It was either Weldon,or Hal mentioning about recording dry,and adding effects later. That's on the "Steel Summit" video.

I have always established a style and sound first where everybody is happy, Blending effects on the fly live, then we hit the TAKE BUTTON!

I record direct and use effects. I run the fx mix low. I hate recording dry going direct but, I will if asked. When I've recorded with an amp I'll use delay but no verb. The studios I work at are real good to work for and with.

Tony

Gary Preston wrote:This may be a dumb question but who knows ? I was wondering when you play sessions does the producer of the session ask you to not use your own personal effect devices ? I know some players use their own amps . I only do a few once and a while and quite frankly i do not like what i hear with the studio effect devices and that makes me unhappy ! I know some don't like the devices that you use for many reasons but i like mine better than theirs . They say they will make me happy in the final mix but i don't hear it ! I already know when you record for someone else its their deal but most of the time they really don't know what they are hearing ! Yeah i know steel players are strange people but it is what it is ! I really don't think some of the producers know the sound that makes steel players happy ! Who knows maybe i'm not making any sense at all ,if thats the case someone please educate me

Gary,
I like to use my equipmet because, I tweek it to the levels that i am comfortable with. If he wants me to use a distortion that is when i will tell him no. IMHO the steel guitar is too beautiful an instrument to ruin it with distortion. I hope your son doing ok. Tommy

From the engineers' prospective, you can add processing such as echo, reverberation, phasing, flanging, to any clean recorded sound, but you can't remove it. By recording electric instruments clean they're free to add processing later.

Imagine if you could only record at one volume and not mix the tracks later.

I've recorded tracks with echo and lived to regret it, when, at the mixdown stage it becomes obvious that there's too much echo, and there's no alternative but to record the track again. I wasted hours like that until I decided to lay down the tracks clean.

But I can see Jerry Byrd's perspective, too. He had a particular sound that he's developed, and wanted to stick with it. But again, as Basil said, Jerry was a big enough star to be able to dictate terms, most other people need to do what they're told if they expect to keep working.

Joshua Grange wrote:putting a DI between the steel and amp, tapping the dry signal and printing it on a separate track, for 'safety' or 'clarity'. Bad news for your tone!
Some engineers are more concerned with the technical aspect of sound capture instead of with tone and try to avoid the 'problems' of amp miking

Bob Hoffnar wrote:I usually refuse to record direct unless its for a jingle session.

Dan Tyack wrote:I never record direct (not even a direct line in addition to the amp)

But are you sure that it sounds better?

My experience is often the opposite in that there are many more ways that an engineer can spoil the sound if he uses a microphone. So many times I like the sound that comes out of my speakers but not the sound "on tape". Usually (not always) I can get a more dependable and consistently good sound going direct.

But even a direct sound is not safe from meddling, as witness this dialog:
me: "I have a preamp with a line level out. It doesn't need to be pre-amped a second time. I find that it sounds best if it goes straight to your converter."
engineer: "OK, I'll run you thru the Avalon."

Funny because in the one instance that really annealed my dislike for the DI sound the engineer used an Avalon DI box....!

I remember a JJ Cale song where Jimmy Day played steel, I think it's called "Hey Baby", and it sounds like he was going direct, and it sounds amazing!
Also I believe for kd langs new record Greg Leisz went direct, and I've heard the track soloed and it's a disturbingly great sweet tone.
For sure it's possible to get a great sound any number of ways, and just as many ways to screw with it once you leave.
For me right now in Feb 2009 I get better results with having an amp miked with a ribbon in front, 57 in back flipped out of phase, no condensers unless it's a room mic.
But as you said Earnest, usually...!
I guess the real trick is to know when to adapt to a particular situation in order to make it work. I think Graboff was alluding to this in his post.
I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that many of us are tinkering constantly with new things, pedals, amps, gadgets, chicken necks, to get to wherever it is we think we need to go. It's always a work in progress...!

It`s Lloyd Green on Hey Baby , I believe...
FWIW, I think a DI feed from a tube pre like an Alembic can be the most beatiful tone, especially if you use a speaker simulation DI like the Palmer.

Yes!
Lloyd Green on Hey Baby, not Jimmy Day.

I almost always go direct because I'm lazy and I like the way my guitar sounds like that,I also like setting up in the control room.listening to the monitors,I always cut dry, but like some reverb in the speakers while I'm recording.There are a few people that I record for that insist that I use an amp,My producer friend at Surreal Studios in Anchorage has a very sweet sounding Fender Vibrolux from about 1973 that he mics with a Shure SM-57 or 58 and it's a wonderful sound.Very rarely do I get to record with a band so it's mostly overdub sessions for me.

Pete Finney is correct. Dry, then leave it to the producers. They know what they want to hear. The last big session I had I took my tubefex all programmed up with my own patches, the first thing he wanted was for me to remove all the effects. I was dry the whole session. It does kinda make you try a bit harder to concentrate on the music. The finished CD was good too. I am having a go at recording on my Apple Mac and pro logic tonight for the first time. I will see what effects it has to offer on mixdown.

David Hartley

I usually record from the control room, but I bring my own 50 foot speaker cord.

I know that many people get a great clean steel sound direct. I'm just not that crazy about the sound, and it affects what I play.

Regarding the statements that Jerry Byrd was a big enough star that he could dictate the process,
actually no. It got to the point that he couldn't
get ANY sessions at all playing steel. He became a
regular session rhythm guitarist and bass player.
This in no way diminishes his stature as a legend,
just the facts ma'am. Eventually, that's what we are
all up against.

I just did a session yesterday, the man producing the project and I tried with my rack first. Then we decided to go with hooking up and going through the studio equipment using my amp. We had some interference (buzz and hum) using my effects. So instead we used the his. And it turned out pretty good, Gary.
Tommy

David Hartley wrote:Pete Finney is correct. Dry, then leave it to the producers. They know what they want to hear. The last big session I had I took my tubefex all programmed up with my own patches, the first thing he wanted was for me to remove all the effects. I was dry the whole session. It does kinda make you try a bit harder to concentrate on the music. The finished CD was good too. I am having a go at recording on my Apple Mac and pro logic tonight for the first time. I will see what effects it has to offer on mixdown.

David Hartley

Hey David,
We did it dry on the song and the guy put in the reverb on the song.