The Steel Guitar Forum

Ray Shakeshaft wrote:Is the decline something to do with learning steel guitar can be difficult

No. It's as difficult as you want to make it. And tunings and pedal/knee lever setups can be changed on PSG.

I will repeat myself. It is the 'country' stereotype that hurts PSG the most.

I could say the same thing about the 120 bass piano accordion. That instrument has often been associated with polka music. Didn't the number of accordionists decline along with the number of polka bands?

Or how about bagpipes? How many pipers don't wear kilts when they perform? How many don't drone out a morbid sounding 'Amazing Grace' in the key of D? The bagpipes weren't even invented in Scotland. They originated somewhere in the Middle East.

I think the big difference is that for well over a decade, pedal steel was the center of country music. It actually defined the genre, in much the same way that banjo defined bluegrass, distorted guitar defined rock, and the acordion defined polka music. Nowadays though, it's mostly added for flavor, a small garnish - not unlike that little sprig of parsley they put on your plate at the restaurant. Oh sure, it makes it look fancy, but it's there more for show than substance. The recording industry discovered that for a singer to have a sound defined by his/her band was a bad thing. There were just too many people to cater to, and too many eyes looking at what was going on. Far easier to please (or pull the wool over the eyes) of one, than many. You can easily see this in the demise of popular and identifiable bands on recordings, and the rise in just vocalists...often accompanied on stage with faceless and uninspiring backup musicians, most who have (by their own choice, or by company and "star" edict) no musical identity or personality of their own. (Don't get me wrong - we do have a great "A" team on most recordings, but it's the SAME team, and it's hard to make the same guys sound different, to have some true variety. In fact, the labels aren't trying to sound different anymore.)

Where will pedal steel playing increase in the future? Hard to say. The internet has done a lot to keep the instrument alive, and even invigorate it, as it has done to other passions, as well. But sooner or later, the dwindling numbers of really good players will prove detrimental. You see, we've been adding and modifying and changing so much that I feel we're almost to the point of making the instrument too expensive, too diverse, and too complex for most people to bother with. Many players are obsessed with trying to make the instrument unique through constant added pedal and chord combinations, which I feel is taking it in the wrong direction. What really makes an instrument unique is the player, that's where all the "magic" really lies. Unless we can come up with some more "magic players", people will soon lose interest. To prove the instrument is growing, some have pointed out there's far more manufacturers today than there used to be, but I don't feel that's the case. Again, because of the internet, we're simply exposed to a lot more information, and that makes the argument seem valid. To be sure, the instrument is heard on a commercial now and then, but that's still a long way from seeing it regularly as an integral part of several weekly TV music shows (which was the situation 40 years ago).

How to spend $100,000 to promote steel guitar....

Pay Buddy, or Franklin to play a long featured solo on Brittney Spears newest tune.

The public would "discover" this new instrument.

Maybe the little home town steel player can help keep it alive,more than the big time players,radio, tv, recording artist and big money people. playing out in your own backyard will help.Add it all up and there is, You, Me,the player not as good as the next guy, but it all counts. At big shows you can't get to talk to a player or even see one. In the small town clubs your two feet away,and can talk all night with them and have a good time. It will not cost you $50 to hear me play(maybe $3)but I'm better than nothing Joe
www.willowcreekband.com

If an appropriate eye-catching, tho't provoking format could be developed......one that would cater to the needs/desires of steel guitar players world-wide.....how much would it be worth to you?

Small guitar builders can't be expected to foot the entire bill of an industry.......like a 30 second spot on the SUPER BOWL telecast. Record companies and radio stations no longer sponsor that kind of promotional so..........

We have what, 4,000 or 5,000 Forumites, the majority of whom love steel guitar and are anxious to promote IT, as well as there own playing.....

Perhaps it would be simpler to get a national movement going if ALL steel players would contribute a small amount of funding, like insurance companies theorize. A comitment of $25.00 (for a membership) with $10.00 per month donations for 12 months. Spreading the cost over a wider base would make more sense than for anyone individual to attempt to cover the entire expenses for the world's steel guitar industry.

This could be made to a steel guitar non-profit, member assn. The non-profit would be responsible for the promotional activity.

In this way, the world of steel guitar would go to the public, rather than hosting a show where interested propects are required to travel anywhere from 100 to 5,000 miles at their own expense. Rodeo's, county and state fairs, auto shows, boat shows, etc., would all be sources for possible display.

Steel guitar records, CD's, etc., could be offered for sale (like a music store). A local artist could possibly be a featured guest at the show. Guitars could be offered for sale and instructors could be available by listing.

Just the tho'ts of a rambling ole man with more time on his hands than good sense.

WHAT SAY YOU?

Ray, the idea of promotion is good. I agree on that.

But I would object strongly if the promoters were die-hard country pickers bound and determined to promote PSG exclusively as a country instrument.

In this way, the world of steel guitar would go to the public, rather than hosting a show where interested propects are required to travel anywhere from 100 to 5,000 miles at their own expense. Rodeo's, county and state fairs, auto shows, boat shows, etc., would all be sources for possible display.

You don't understand. It's not that the steel guitar needs exposure, it's more that the public (by and large) just doesn't care. It's simply not a "cool" instrument in it's current context. If there were 50 players out there like Robert Randolph and Sneaky Pete, things might be different. The young crowd doesn't relate to the ordinary, classic (whiney-crying) sounds, nor are they drawn to the image of the majority of players, who are conservative middle-aged and older men.

For the young people, the group you must captivate, image is EVERYTHING.

Donny Hinson wrote:It's not that the steel guitar needs exposure ... It's simply not a "cool" instrument ... The young crowd doesn't relate to the ordinary, classic (whiney-crying) sounds, nor are they drawn to ... the majority of [its] players, who are conservative middle-aged and older men.

You hit the nail on the head. The conservative country pickers are hindering the instrument's potential to be exposed to a wider audience and a wider range of players.

I agree with Donny and Leslie on this one. It's the association with conservative stuffiness that is the classic steel guitar's biggest obstacle. However "non-classic" steel is thriving.

This conversation also pops up on a flamenco guitar forum that I visit. Flamenco also suffers from a dominant crowd who simultaneously ensure that it can't progress and complain that it is dying a slow death.

I host an underground venue and there have been plenty of steel players in the bands that have visited. None of them have been country bands. I play steel in my band but I don't play "steel". It's one of our defining sounds and people seem to love it. Hopefully, the stereotype (that steel = country or Hawaiian") will fade.

Not long ago, my bandmates and I were on the road and listening to a modern country station just for the torture of it. Please keep in mind that I LOVE classic country, most of which was recorded before I was born, 1975. We all came to the conclusion that all of the major modern country labels are using a small handful of steel players on countless tracks. There's just no variation in tone between songs. It's always vanilla. Many of the artists use a completely different band in the studio than on the road. Wasn't it Clint Black that was called "crazy" for wanting to record with his "road band". I hope modern country goes the way of bad 80's big-hair metal, because it kinda sounds like it, when you get down to it. Listen to the unnatural acoustic guitar sounds, the way the drums are miced, the way they repeat a chorus way too many times ending with an accapella nail in the coffin.

Back to the point. Listen to Calexico. That PSGer is awesome. I've seen them twice now and he gets plenty of attention from a crowd that is mostly 21-35 yrs old. Steel guitar is definately cool when taken off of the treadmill.

I think steel guitar needs as much variation in tone and style as the six-string guitar has. Guitar hero's have their own personality and there's no reason why steel shouldn't have it's eccentric ambassadors. I'm on this forum all the time, reading and listening to clips and such. 90% of the clips are cover tunes. Why?

How many of you listened to my recent post, "New track, feedback wanted" and immediately dismissed it because it didn't have a classic steel sound?

It's simply not a "cool" instrument in it's current context.

Depends where you live. Over here in the Hand State I'm plenty busy with pedal and no-pedal gigs.

Leslie E.

"You hit the nail on the head. The conservative country pickers are hindering the instrument's potential to be exposed to a wider audience and a wider range of players."

Are you certain you REALLY WANT TO SAY THAT or did you cut and paste it from some New Country site?





Phred
_________________

The way we are selling new steel guitars proves that this instrument isn't dying at all. Not even sick.
We have many beginners a week in here and I'm sending new students to teachers in the area every day.
Believe me, there are some VERY successful steel teachers in this country, Maurice, Doug Jernigan, even Jeff Newman died a multi millionaire, really!

Steel is alive and well.

Bobbe Seymour,

Leslie Ehrlich wrote: "The conservative country pickers are hindering the instrument's potential to be exposed to a wider audience and a wider range of players."

How are they doing that, exactly? What does this "hindering" consist of?

I have gathered from your posts that you play entirely non-country music on pedal steel. If you perform in public with a band, or bands, have you had to overcome some stranglehold of "conservative country pickers"? "Gee, we'd like to have you in our hard rock band, but we have to have this conservative country guy."

As a lot of the laments here on the Forum make clear, "conservative country picker" steel players are not in the driver's seat in any area of the music business today. They're in no position to exclude anybody from anything. If the stereotype lives in the public's perception, it's because there hasn't been enough happening in other arenas. So you non-country players, get out there and make it happen!

Brint, when I first started playing steel guitar, I ran up against a wall of teachers that would pretty much end the conversation if you weren't planning on playing their respective traditional style. I'm not exaggerating. I even talked to a former bassist from a metal band, that had taken up Hawaiian music, that simply lost interest when I told him my plans with the steel. They were more interested in championing their music than teaching.

A small handful of them (Tucker Jackson comes to mind) didn't seem to have to have their conditions met before sharing their knowledge. Those few all seemed to have one thing in common, they were relatively new to the instrument.

Regular six-string guitar doesn't seem to have these hang-ups. A guitar teacher will try to prepare you for flexibility in many stlyes of music. Steel guitarists can't seem to separate the instrument from the music itself. Just look at how this thread took an immediate turn to country music.

The instrument needs a Hendrix, a Wes Montgomery and a Curt Cobain. In other words, it needs experimentation, taste, image and above all.......variety.

And a "high" of some kind?

Fred Shannon wrote:And a "high" of some kind?

Ok, so maybe I should have included an innovator that isn't associated with drugs. How about Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull. If you can make a flute work in hard rock than you can make a steel guitar work with anything.

I have a wife that can make a flute, tenor/alto sax and even a clarinet work in country, jazz, rock, and classical but that has nothing to do with the instruments James, it has to do with her talent. Agreed?

I hadn't thought about the teaching angle, as I am self-taught, and thus haven't encountered any teachers.

It's certainly regrettable if teachers have an attitude hostile to other than narrow use of an instrument, but I would imagine that in some cases it's not a matter of hostility as much as simply that they teach what they know. Since it is still true that a good majority of those who are already steel players were themselves drawn to the instrument in the first place by a desire to play one or more of the country styles it's long been associated with, their knowledge about the instrument, which can be extensive and wide-ranging, exists within that framework, and naturally so would their teaching.

It's a recurring theme here on the Forum that people who want to play steel but not country protest the predominance of country approaches to teaching, whether live teachers or teaching materials. I often wish they would take the above into account, and cut everybody some slack--not everyone is being a reactionary dog in the manger about the instrument. In some cases it may be the student's rejection of what the teacher has to offer that prevents a constructive relationship.

A lot of first- and second-generation rock guitarists took early lessons from "square" teachers from an earlier generation who were steeped in styles the young students weren't interested in, and who weren't interested in the styles the students wanted to play. But the knowledge they gained from the lessons nevertheless served them thereafter when they "left the nest" and developed their own thing.

The instrument needs a Hendrix, a Wes Montgomery and a Curt Cobain. In other words, it needs experimentation, taste, image and above all.......variety.

And a "high" of some kind?

Ok, so maybe I should have included an innovator that isn't associated with drugs.

To my knowledge, Wes Montgomery is not at all associated with drugs.

I don't believe I said anything about "drugs". The word is "high". Wes Montgomery and Lionel Hampton never popped a pill to my knowledge. I do know in an interview both gents said they got "high" on the music, they didn't need a catalyst. I played a couple years with the former 1st Trumpet to Hampton, Wallace Davenport, and there were no drugs, drinks, or ladies allowed on the bandstand. Also the mandatory attire was black pants, socks, and shoes. The shirt was white and a black bowtie. Check out the music business now.


Phred

Fred Shannon wrote:I have a wife that can make a flute, tenor/alto sax and even a clarinet work in country, jazz, rock, and classical but that has nothing to do with the instruments James, it has to do with her talent. Agreed?

I am with Fred on that. I used to play at an open-mic jam here in Louisiana , and I played more than country backing up other musicians playing other genres of music. People would come up and perform rock, blues. folk. You name it. It all has to do with the talent of the individual. Look at guys like Buddy Emmons, Lloyd Green, and others. Chet Atkins(Mr.Guitar) made a living playing other styles of music to get their instruments out there. They're all talented musicians.

you know I am in total sympathy with someone who cares enough to take lessons and then have an instructor who is so narrow minded as to prescribe nothing but country. We kinda' did the opposite out here for our students.

Two of the songs we insisted they play were "C-jam blues" and Ellingtons' "A Train". Both had an enlightening effect on the students. check out the chord progressions and you'll understand why.

Last time I checked the steel guitar is an inanimate object that responds to how it's played. Facetiously, I don't believe it knows whether it's pop, rock, classical, or whatever that is relayed to the amplifier.


phred

Perception and point of view are everything. I saw players actually get up and walk out when Curly Chalker started his set in St. Louis at the I.S.G.C.! He wasn't "country" enough - too much jazz, and not enough "whiney eniney". Of course, that could happen in any genre. I can well imagine Arthur Rubenstein walking out on Stevie Wonder, or Bob walking out on Bela Fleck!

I like plain ol' country, and I also like most other styles of music, but music really isn't a big issue. The big issues for young people are style and image. Playing an instrument (even if you play it well, and in many types of music) isn't enough, nowadays. You have to be able to "sell" what you're doing, and it also helps to have a gimmick. (Like that stupid clock of Snoop Dawg's. )

Well if anyone finds it reassuring, I'm 25, and I got a PSG because I have always thought it was the most beautiful sounding instrument in the world. I agree with the negative sentiment towards mainstream country music, but most criticism of this music applies to all other commercial music.

Look at the lineup for south by southwest here in Austin if you want to see where country music is going. Yeah most of these guys can barely play their instruments, compared to say your Chets and Buddys, but at least they don't sound like a computer.

With regard to promoting this fabulous instrument...I'm actually hearing more and more steel on all sorts of records these days. Geez - I just heard a track from a recent Pretenders record, and it had a GREAT steel guitar part goin on!

I think we have to pay tribute to the greats - Buddy, Herby, Curly, etc. etc...they have excelled in what they've done (to put it MILDLY)...I know that as a newbie (been at it for a couple of years now), the first thing I wanted to learn was the FOUNDATION. How do I learn to walk? Why does that break from Buddy make me shiver? How do I insert those passing chords to get that emotion that drew me to this instrument in the first place?

Several years ago I saw the Dire Straits tour with PF - my jaw dropped. Wow. Sting...Lyle Lovett...I think we are seeing the instrument continue to evolve. I'm hearing it more and more in contemporary music of all types.

OK OK...I'll shut up. Let me close by saying that in my mind we need to continue to cherish the work and innovation that got us where we are today while we remain open to new places and sounds that come along.

My .02