The Steel Guitar Forum

Glad to pass it on. One last cut ... Joaquin's tour-de-force performance of Honeysuckle Rose with Andy Parker & the Plainsmen way back when the accordion was cool.

https://home.comcast.net/~aevolk/music/ ... S_rose.mp3

Last night, I took the solo from Yearning and slowed it down to 2/3 original speed. The facility and clarity of notes is amazing. The grace note slides, every nuance is clean and perfectly executed. His ability is incredible!

The program I use keeps the pitch constant. This one is in B I think.

I could spend hours listening and trying to find it on my lap steel. In normal speed it just goes past my ears like a blur. It reminds of "dropping the needle" when I used to try to learn from records.

Looking forward to Honeysuckle Rose! Thanks!

When I first saw the transcriptions John did for our book a bulb went off ... the actual positions on the steel that JM used weren't complex in that they're natural and logical in the context of the 6th tuning and variations. Despite his early background in Hawaiian playing, he was a very horizontal player as well; he wasn't jumping all over the neck to get notes.

When I listen to Joaquin's music, these things stand out:

#1 His incredible ear for great single note lines and the technique he had and sense of placing the notes in relation to the beat regardless of tempo.
#2 His mysterious ability to pick block while always sustaining a round, singing tone - again, at all tempos
#3 The way he could play an equally great line over a complex alternate dominant chord - D+, D13b9 or a simple D chord.
#4 His sense of harmony in his lush chord solos - and unlike a lot of folks who think his early work stands way above anything he did after the 50s - I think his last recordings that Mike Johnson did are gorgeous in both concept and execution.
#5 And lastly, the thing that makes Joaquin's music all the more poignant for me was how sad and lonely a guy he was as a person. From all accounts, for however he was admired as a musician, he was alienated as a person for his attitude and behaviors - some of which bordered on mental illness. ADHD, bipolar disorder, who knows? But it informed his whole professional and personal life in a big way. I'm happy to remain less than mediocre. There often seems to be a big price for genius.

The wonderful (and sometimes awful) truth about the steel guitar is that I'm always playing catch-up to what all the giants who played before have done. Joaquin, Vance, Speedy, Curly...so much there to draw from.

What I hear and admire is his sense of phrasing. Charlie Christian, Charlie Parker, all the greats (in my mind) have this amazing ability to turn notes and rests (rests are as important as notes) into melody.

I don't know how to learn phrasing or if it can be taught.

I was talking about this to a friend who is a high level jazz instructor and player. I asked how come so many guitarists seem to just fire off notes like an automatic weapon (and burn my ears out quick!) He thought it was because the guitar is not a wind instrument. No need to take a breath.

Joaquin's phrasing reminds me of a sax or big band swing solos.

Andy, you mentioned pick blocking. What was his setup? I don't know much about him. What kind of bar?

I hear the cool chords which have to be some slanting but I don't think I have heard him do the 6's and 3's slants that Byrd is so famous for. Am I wrong there?

Looking forward to getting the book. I hope there is some history in there, too.

By the way, is there a transcription to Honeysuckle Rose?

I've never seen that version of HR transcribed, Mark, but it may well have been done informally as that was one of his most famous records among steel players. I was sorry that I got a copy of that cut after we'd already done the JM book. That and JM's incredible solo on Columbus Stockade are two favorites I wish had been in there.

Mark, Lee, Chas and Mike can answer your questions re Joaquin's set-up better than I 'cause they all saw him play in person. For his early career, he used a bullet bar, mostly Bigsby steels with a Bigsby volume pedal and several variations on the C6th & 1E3th tunings. He didn't play like Byrd - using slants to move up and down the fingerboard. He could play very legato, but swing tunes thrive on syncopations and short notes so, like many western swing players, he jumped around the neck to get the chords he needed but also had a whole set of movable positions he used to get his single note runs in a four or five-fret area, much like standard guitar players with their pentatonic scale box positions - but often, over more complex changes. Scales and arpeggios naturally lay well in a 6th tuning for very smooth, naturally flowing lines without a slew of string skipping. I've been told Murph's touch seemed light and effortless and that his bar hand seemed to float over the strings.

Lee, Chas , Mike - what did you guys observe?

Andy, your last sentence is the main physical observation I had.
His right hand, had great economy of motion, I didn't see him palm block.
I wouldn't necessarily trust my memory though, I saw him play twice, and each time I was very overwhelmed.
Mike, would have the best insights on technique, he spent hundreds of hours with Murph.
I do have an observation that Speedy relayed too me.
He said early in his career he would catch Joaquin at every opportunity, he said quote, I lived and breathed Joaquin.
He observed that just before JM was about to dig in to a solo, he would take in a big gulp of air, and hold it until he had finished.
My gut feeling is Joaquin wasn't aware of what was going on, I think he got in a place where he became a conduit.
Before anyone asks, no I don't own any Chrystal's.
Lee

Regarding notes vis a' vis rests, guitarists v. wind instruments, and constant streams of 16th notes:

What musicians and singers do, or should do IMHO, is primarily communicate with their audience. Songs have stories and messages... singers use lyrics, musicians use the more obscure medium of notes. But regardless, our job is to communicate the story of the song, or the emotion of the song, to the audience.

Imaging someone talking to you at 180 words per minute, with no pauses, rests, spots where he took a breath, or gave you even a second to absorb what he just said, much less let you comment upon what he's saying. Soon you'd just tune his message out as your eyes glazed over.

Musically it's the same thing. It's the pauses, the conversational statements in which either the lyrics to the tune are conveyed, or the spirit of the emotion of the song is musically expressed.

I've got most everything Joaquin recorded. He always had something to say about the song.

Just MHO, your mileage may vary.

When he played, his hands reminded me of a real polished slight-of-hand artist. He had a small collection of various sized but unremarkable bars when I met him. He asked me what I used and why - and I,at the time was using large GeorgeL and Dunlop 1 inch x 4 inch 12 string bars because I played a 12 string and I liked the heft,tone and the way they kept your vibrato "honest". Plus you can get a hold of the bar easier to pick up and tip up. He tried my Dunlop for a while and agreed with me and that's the bar he used on his last CD and for the rest of his life. The 12 string bar worked well on his 9-string pedal guitar that Chas built for him because it had wide(3/8")string spacing and the strings were completely parallel so the 9 strings were about as wide as the strings on a modern 12 string. I gave that bar to Herb a few years ago. I still have the original tapered Bigsby bar that came with his T-8. It's about 3 & 1/4" long and 15/16ths at the big end and 3/4" at the tip and has "JM" stamped in the end. He used any old thumbpick and dunlop thin gauge brass fingerpicks and they were hanging off the fingertips like they were about to fall off and kept his nails very short - almost like a kid that chews his nails down to the quick. He started on a Dickerson 6-string and later in his prime played a succession of Bigsbys(at least 4 and maybe more)but was seen playing other things like the occasional Fender or Magnatone and used Fender and Standel amps. Later in life in the late 60s some machinist from Burbank named "Woody" built him a short scale 8-string with 6 pedals which he played for a number of years including the one and only time he played at one of Scottys early steel conventions in St Louis in the early 70s. When Woody passed away his kids came to Murph's house,barged in and re-possessed the guitar by force. He didn't have a guitar so he started washing cars for a living till he got prostate cancer around 1990. After that he existed on social security and some small investments. That's around when I met him. Everybody warned me that he was nuts and a bitter,mean drunk but I found him to be a delightful old character and nothing like that. Chas built him a nice guitar and we made a record. We got to be real close and he lived at my home at the end when the cancer came back for the third and final time. He used to sit beside me where I'm sitting right now at the computer and marvel at the internet. We shant see the likes of him again.

Mike, thanks for your great anecdotes on Joaquin. Just as you were lucky to have had him in your life, he was definitely lucky to have you.

Thanks everyone for sharing what they know about this great musician. His playing inspires me every single day.

Michael and Chas, thank you very much for sharing those anecdotes about Joaquin. Andy, the link to the westernblog is a treasure chest, cheers!

Thanks so much for posting these memories and comments. I remember Ralph Kolsiana telling me how much he admired Joaquin's playing and that he regretted that they had never crossed paths in the 40s when Ralph was running from club to club every night in LA. At one point, he had heard Murph didn't have a guitar and wanted to give him one of his but I guess that never happened.

Fascinating! Thanks so much!

Wow, excellent stories, thanks everyone for sharing those.

Getting back to Joaquins phrasing . It would be my guess that when when Joaquin was making his way from a great student to an excellent player, his steel influences were limited. I would have to thing Sol Hoopi was one of his big ones. Being a kid in the 40's he was surrounded by Big Band music, of course Benny Goodman , Django, and the likes influenced him musically more than steel players. His phrasing came natural from the music he surrounded himself with. Anyways just a guess .
No doubt in my mind Joaquin will always be the most incredible steeler that ever lived. Unless of course we can find a gifted 7-10 year old, surround him with nothing but Big Band music keep him away from computers, ipods, cell phones and synth music, lock him in the closet with a steel for a few years we may get another child prodigy of the steel guitar again.
Todd

My last post of thanks was too brief. It really is a privilege to be able to communicate with you all who know this stuff and are so kind as to share.

Sincerely, thank you...

Mark

PS. I am going through the head of Honeysuckle Rose and trying to learn it. It is simply amazing!

Back, in the late 80's, I joined a western swing band that did a lot of Spade Cooley covers and I had to learn Joaquin's solos. Not a simple task and at the time, since I was required to play a non-pedal guitar, I bought some Bigsbys. Keep in mind that nobody wanted a Bigsby back then.

One of the guitars had been Joaquin's, and since I had been having so much trouble learning his solos, I decided to call him up to ask him what his tunings had been and how did he get through those diminished structures so quickly. He was living in a trailer park, in Pacoima, not exactly a vacation destination, so I gave him a call. I also knew that he had some drinking issues.

He answered the phone and I introduced myself, told him I was learning his solos and that I had one of his guitars. To which he gruffly replied, "I had a lot of guitars". Umm, well ,ok, um, well, I was wondering what your tuning was... "I had had a lot of tunings....Hey listen, they wouldn't let me play what I wanted to play, so, f*ck them and f*ck you." Click, he hung up the phone.

Wow, that's the first time one of my heroes has told me to f*ck myself to my face. They usually say that behind my back, but never to my face. This could be the start of a trend.

I called Jerry Compton, one of Joaquin's friends, and he said, well, that sounds like Joaquin. Why don't you try asking him about his '48 Cadillac, he loved that car, and I'm a big fan of Cadillacs.


Photo of Joaquin's Cad, compliments of Paul Greenstein.

I gave it a couple of weeks, called him again and started the conversation about Cadillacs.
He said it was a wonderful car, sounded like a Chris Craft motor boat. But shortly there after, he figured out that I was a musician and I got a rerun of the f*ck them, f*ck you routine. Sometimes things don't go the way I want them to go.

Fast forward to around 1995. I get a call that Joaquin is sober and wants to play guitar again, would I let him play his Bigsby. I said, of course, but I'm going to want an autograph.

Then I get a call from Michael, that Joaquin doesn't really want that guitar, he wants one like the one he had, that got confiscated. I told him that somebody should hunt down those guys, chop off their hands, and of course I would help him get what he wants. Maybe we modify a single neck or something.

Now, some of you might be thinking, why would I help someone who had told me to go f*ck myself. First of all, that's hardly the first time someone has told me that and you have to remember the circumstances and who this man is/was.

Some time later, I get a call, from Michael, that they are all over at Don McGinness' house, about 8 blocks from mine, and could they come over to take some measurements, for the guitar. (Don and Doug McGinness had a bar, called the Mule Kick, that became the Palomino.) Whoa, I start having an anxiety attack. It's like if you're Catholic and the Pope is coming to your house. I'm also not known for my house keeping skills, but Michael assured me that it wouldn't be a problem, Joaquin's trailer was pretty creative.

There's a knock at the door, Michael and Don come in followed by this absolutely delightful, little old man and we start talking about guitars and music. Joaquin sits behind my Sho-Bud, it doesn't have his tuning or string spacing, but he takes out his picks, that look like straight darts off his finger tips and a bar that looks like he got it at a swap meet, strums the guitar a couple of times, starts picking around a bit saying, "now, where was that", then he launches into some solo runs.

My jaw hits my chest. He hasn't had a guitar in 14 years and I have no hope of playing like that, in my lifetime. He also had a "gift" where he could strum the guitar, a couple of times, and regardless of the tuning, would know where every note, for every string, was on every fret. His right hand was the lightest I had ever seen and he just skimmed over the strings.

One of the stories I had heard was, he was always experimenting with different tunings and regardless of what was on the guitar that week, he would take it and play the gig with what ever was on there. It also answered my question, how did you get through those diminished structures, so fast.

Mojo

Go to "the Radio.com" on the Internet. Enter in "Spade Cooley" and you have a choice of albums to listen to with a lot of Joaquin. Sometimes you have to skip some in-between songs by other artists, but Spade Cooley Songs will keep appearing.

I learned this from another post by a forum member !

Rich man, who has recorded this? The vocalist sounds like Shorty Rogers to me? Is this a transcription or an official release.
I do have some 78's by the Plainsmen on Coast and also on Tops. New San Antonio Rose for instance on Tops is a different take then the version on Coast. Is this also the case with Honeysuckle Rose? I have only the version on Tops.
If anyone knows, please let me know!

chas...great stories...thanx!

Erik, "Rich Man Poor Man" was recorded by Smokey Rogers as the A side of Capitol 40230 (B side was "Make Believe Heart"). From a quick search, it appears as if it was recorded around 1948-1949.

Thanks Brad!

Joaquin's version of Honeysuckle Rose:

Looks like forumite Craig Prior transcribed JM's Honeysuckle Rose a few years ago and posted it on the HSGA site complete with 1/2 speed sound clips.

Scroll down to the 12/3/07 "big print tab" and mp3 links! Thanks, Craig!

http://www.hsga.org/forum/cgi-bin/yabb2 ... 1196549268