The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **8 Aug 2008 9:42 am**

I mean Give me a f'n break...

Posted: **8 Aug 2008 3:01 pm**

I think reguardless of what style you're going to play, you have to like it to a certain extent to play it well! I personally do not like R&R, so; I do not do it very well and would never take an R&R gig, for even one night! I really like Hawaiian music, but; I probably would not take a Hawaiian gig, w/o a rehearsal first and even that might be just enough to convince me that I couldn't handle it well enough! But, on the other hand; I'd sure like to try! And also, on the other hand; I have four-fingers and a thumb!

Posted: **8 Aug 2008 4:38 pm**

Bill Wynne wrote:Please take these comments in the most positive light, but as a steel player who only plays Hawaiian-style, I am a little offended by the notion that a country or jazz player could emulate the Hawaiian style with a few helpful suggestions on a few short weeks' notice.

Some of us have been working decades to come close to developing a Hawaiian touch and tone. Learn two or three turn-arounds? The Hawaiian-style greats had dozens or hundreds of turn-arounds! Their playing is always fresh - even on repeat listenings of the same recordings! John comes closest to constructive advice with his suggestions about tone, but there is just so much more to it than this!

As an exclusively Hawaiian-style player, if I received a call for a country gig, I wouldn't tell the client, "I'll put out my Curly Chalker records and I'll be ready in two weeks!" It just seems so unprofessional.

There are a great many fabulous traditional Hawaiian bands all over California. I would have referred the gig to them.

In a different forum, we have been discussing the preservation of Hawaiian-style steel guitar. And the general concensus seems to be that it can only be preserved and perpetuated if it is approached in true Hawaiian fashion and attitude. What that means to Hawaiians is playing first for the love of their culture regardless of the pay scale. This is the way it has always been among Hawaiians. Now add a touch of humility to this. You will not hear many Hawaiian steel players venture into country, rock, or blues unless they are practicing their asses off in those genres day and night for many years. (Hats off to Greg Sardinha and Bobby Ingano who can go back and forth between the genres with ease.) It is the difference between playing for love and playing for money. If you don't absolutely love Hawaiian music, it is very un-Hawaiian posture to perform it. When you perform Hawaiian music, you are not merely representing Hawaiian music, but rather you are representing a dying culture.

Bill, chill man! I play Hawaiian too (not only but still) and I know it's tough thing to get right like any style. this thread was part tongue in cheek and the most important rule of music is be able to laugh at yourself. the other important part is if you're a pro and a client ask you to do a gig and that client is not a purist looking for an exact authentic replica, you fill the bill. The industry is tough and you can't necessarily just turn work away if you can do a reasonable facsimile. if you can't, that's a different story. Studio musicians often have to fake a style for a gig.

Yes you should definitely respect the roots of the music you perform but, don't be too thin skinned either.

Posted: **8 Aug 2008 5:17 pm**

I think he's looking at it from a perspective of usually playing in front of a crowd of Hawaiian locals, not people who've never heard much/any classic Hawaiian music, let alone with steel, and wouldn't know from Shinola.

You better know your kaka if you play in front of a knowing crowd. If it's just a faux Hawaiian gig, then play what you think they'll expect, because the good stuff will go over most of their heads.

Posted: **8 Aug 2008 5:40 pm**

I can't tell you how many 'luaus' i see looking for Steel drum, reggae or jimmy Buffet. if they want Hawaiian, it's a god send¡

Posted: **8 Aug 2008 6:42 pm**

Some people might think differently but here is a tuning I use a lot lately for my Hawaiian stuff(that I play).

D
B
A
F#
D
A

none of us are schooled in Hawaiian music.

I grew up with it and had lessons from probably the biggest players that have ever lived so I consider myself "schooled" in Hawaiian.
The advice of playing a lot higher up the neck is not entirely true.It depends on the style of Hawaiian music you are playing or will be playing.I have listed a couple on the bottom of this post of my all time favorite Rudy Wairata.The advice in laying of the high tones(amp settings)will give you an advantage when it comes to "that" Hawaiian sound.Depending on what era Hawaiian music you will be playing I would think about a good reverb(dry reverb).

Swinging Steelguitar

Aloha Rag

Hawaiian ChooChoo

Kilima Rag

Good luck and ...."Aloha".

Ron

Posted: **11 Aug 2008 7:06 am**

Ron Whitfield wrote:I think he's looking at it from a perspective of usually playing in front of a crowd of Hawaiian locals, not people who've never heard much/any classic Hawaiian music, let alone with steel, and wouldn't know from Shinola.

You better know your kaka if you play in front of a knowing crowd. If it's just a faux Hawaiian gig, then play what you think they'll expect, because the good stuff will go over most of their heads.

You have always had carte blanche to speak for me! You and I are like the... hydra! (I was going to say the Borg!)

OK, maybe I went a little overboard. I apologize. I appreciate the grounding in reality. But I was not just speaking of performing for knowing audiences. The goal of performing Hawaiian music is to make an unknowing audience a knowing audience.

Wanna-bes are greatly frowned upon in Hawai`i. For too long Hawaiian music has lost popularity across America. And I think it has much to do with a proliferation of truly bad attempts at it. And I would go further to say that these truly bad attempts are because the musicians in question don't care about representing the Hawaiian culture.

The difference in taking a country gig when your speciality is R&B and taking a Hawaiian gig when your speciality is country is that when you take the Hawaiian gig you are not merely representing a musical genre. You are representing a culture. Early in my days of performing Hawaiian music I was corrected when I said I was a "Hawaiian musician." Real Hawaiians said, "No, you are a musician who plays Hawaiian music." And I said, "But if I play rock, I am rock musician, and if I play jazz, I am a jazz musician." And I was finally made to understand that rock and jazz were kinds of music whereas Hawaiian is an ethnic identity.

You guys gave me something to think about. I hope I made some of you think, too. Jerry Byrd is one of the few who broke the "color barrier" - because he played like a Hawaiian. Hawaiian music may simply be another kind of music to some. But to the Hawaiians, it is sacred - one of the few things the "white man" did not bastardize when the islands were annexed.

Posted: **11 Aug 2008 9:47 am**

consider this. jazz has a culture based out of the African American experience as does R&B. African Americans could very easily and maybe rightly so say that you are a white man playing black man's music too. Music's root should be respected period and to draw that line makes no sense. Meanwhile, as I hear it steel is isn't as respected as uke and slack key in Hawaii these days.

As far as playing a style of music, there are very few styles who can claim to be totally authentic and unique due to cross pollenation.

Posted: **11 Aug 2008 10:44 am**

Could it not be claimed that the only true Hawaiian "music" is Hawaiian chant as it did not contain outside influences?

Posted: **11 Aug 2008 11:19 am**

That it could, Bill L., but today, even Jawaiian reggae is considered Hawaiian music, mainly because and if it's played by Hawaiian locals. Relatively few outside of the group that enjoys that stuff would term it (at least classic) Hawaiian, but local music will always be evolving, and discussed and various POV often disputed.

Per Bill W's point of teaching the unknowing the proper and correct ways of Hawaii and it's music, that is a tall order and one that usually falls flat, but certainly admirable, important, and to strive for.
Too bad that most efforts are to largly hard headed deaf ears. The day when great Hawaiian music was of interest and respected is fading fast, with few now willing to take much interest. No news there, which is why a mainland luau will often be a big success with paper leis, a bongo, plenty of mai tais, and some broad shaking it up in a plastic grass skirt and coconut boobies.
Hey, that puts me in the mood...

Posted: **11 Aug 2008 11:39 am**

You're not going to be educating anyone about true Hawaiian culture at a backyard luau with half the guests drunk. educational ventures are done in the proper venues.

Posted: **11 Aug 2008 6:54 pm**

My impression of Hawaiian musicians is that they take their music very seriously. You may not think it matters if you change the tempo of a number, or play it in a different key than that in which it's written, or mispronounce the words, but to a lot of people all that is sacrosanct.

I enjoy playing Hawaiian material, and I'm putting together a CD of Hawaiian songs, mainly on C6 steel, but I'm no Jerry Byrd, and I can't even try to be, so as a warning to others I'm entitling my CD............

Posted: **11 Aug 2008 8:58 pm**

Most folks who go to Hawaii for vacations hear only "tourist" Hawaiian music. So it may not be difficult to generate some like that for a gig for folks who don't really know the music. They will be happy for the "Hawaiian" sound

Alan, I wont buy the CD until you lose the pedals

Posted: **12 Aug 2008 7:37 pm**

Bill Creller wrote:...Alan, I wont buy the CD until you lose the pedals

I'll be using a Stringmaster and a New Yorker for most of the tracks. I just don't have a photo of me behind one yet. The cover is just a mock-up so far.

Posted: **12 Aug 2008 11:53 pm**

Ron is on the money.

I've been to the other major islands several times, and have spent very little time on Oahu (where I know some steel is still played in certain venues), and on Maui, Kauai, and the Big Island of Hawaii, I have never come across a group with steel guitar, and I have tried to find some steel on my trips.

Aside from slack key and the younger folks playing Jawaiian, the most authentic thing that seems to be embraced is ukulele - there are a number of luthiers making gorgeous instruments, often out of koa, and I have heard some beautiful uke playing on my visits.

And as far as Jerry Byrd having passed through the "color barrier," I have read on this very Forum in years past that many have never really accepted Jerry as playing "the real thing" in Hawaii either. His Hawaiian playing always sounded beautiful to me, but then I'm a white boy from California...

Good luck, Steve, I'm sure you will do your best. I took lessons on lap steel in the 60's starting as a 10 year old kid,learned quite a few Hawaiian songs, and I would never consider myself to be a legitimate Hawaiian steel player, but I'm sure I could get by for a Bay Area gig, especially if no Hawaiians whom are lap steel aficionados are in the audience...

Posted: **14 Aug 2008 6:42 am**

Mark Eaton wrote:...I have never come across a group with steel guitar, and I have tried to find some steel on my trips...

Mark is right. When my daughter went to Hawaii a couple of years ago I asked her to bring back some CDs of steel guitar for me, but she looked all over and couldn't find any.

Posted: **14 Aug 2008 10:34 am**

Alan, you'll have better luck getting your steel CDs off the net than Hawaii's store, altho it's a fine excuse to come to the islands.
Try page 2 of www.hwnsge.5u.com for a small listing of the better players and their CDs.
www.mele.com & www.hakushouse.com have larger selections, and then google for even more.

www.cordinternational.com

Posted: **14 Aug 2008 4:57 pm**

cordinternational.com has a bunch of traditional Hawaiian music. He is in Ventura California, and has a free catalog.

Posted: **14 Aug 2008 5:18 pm**

Thanks Ron and Bill. I'll check out those web locations. I haven't been to Hawaii since 1982. I guess I'm overdue for a visit.

Posted: **14 Aug 2008 9:18 pm**

Thanks everyone for the encouragment as well as the helpful suggestions.

Our band has a uke, two guitars/singers, a bass, a steel and a drummer. We've had two rehearsals and will have one more before our little show. It's starting to come around. We are playing for a luncheon....30-40 minutes.

Trying for the laid-back island sound.

I don't expect the audience to be too knowledgeable or too critical. This audience is usually very appreciative and enthusiastic. No Hawaiians in the audience but our drummer is Hawaiian.

Posted: **16 Aug 2008 7:53 am**

RON: Great to hear your rendition of "Swingin' Steel Guitar" and "Kilima Rag". I particularly loved the rhythm section. What instruments and folks make up that section?

My view of Hawaiian up-beat tunes, is that they always seem to be happy and going somewhere with each tune. NOT LIKE our local boys who have to see if they can completely destroy "Highway 40 Blues", and "Orange Blossom Special" and the other tune, can't recall what it is........usually can't identify it anyway.

THANKS for sharing with us.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Keys to getting the Island Sound

Give me a break...

I can't speak for Bill, but...

Re: I can't speak for Bill, but...

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A real pleasure.....................