Most controversial PSG player Poll

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 9 Jun 2008 8:38 am

This kind of stuff isn't unique to the steel guitar community. Richard Wagner, Igor Stravinsky and Arnold Schoenberg were all, "Controversial," in their day as well. Then there was jazz. And after that Rock n' roll. It's just a human thing.

Mike Poholsky · Post by **Mike Poholsky** » 9 Jun 2008 8:50 am

Just let it grow! As a good friend of mine is fond of saying," Stand back, I don't know how big this thing is going to get."
The internet is exposing more information about the steel guitar(and many other things)to an audience of global proportions. There's no going back. IMO!
I'd rather be on the bus!

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 9 Jun 2008 9:08 am

Jim Sliff, you really should go to "The Convention"!

Honestly dude, your just as narrowly focused as they are, if not more so. Sure, you'll hear "Way to Survive" a couple times and I think you'd probably survive that....but you might also hear someone kick out some fuzz, play some bach, or just otherwise surprise and astound you with something really cool and orginal. You aint that far out there Jim. It aint you against the stodgey old steel guitarists establishment no matter how enticing that prospect might be for you...

I dunno man, sometimes i get the feeling you are just as narrow and rigid as some of these old cats are...more so even.

Joel Meredith · Post by **Joel Meredith** » 9 Jun 2008 9:21 am

None of these players should be considered "controversial", they're just doing their thing and you either like it or not...

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 9 Jun 2008 10:35 am

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 9 Jun 2008 10:49 am

I don't think that ay of these people are controversial. I would say the only thing controversial is the lack of open mindness to accept a persons ability to express the emotion of themselves or the song. That's like telling someone they are controversial because they play jazz or classical music. Secure in the individuallity? Yup
Controversial? Kinda doubt it!

Carroll Hale · Post by **Carroll Hale** » 9 Jun 2008 11:40 am

do not participate in most of the polls...nor threads...read lots of sgf threads.......mostly cause I am not an experienced steel player....but for knowledge....my question....

"why is this thread even on here".....seems as if it is here to "START" a controversy.....and that seems to defeat the purpose of sgf in the first place...."a place for steel guitarist to learn and share knowledge".....somehow, I just dont get it...

my 2 cts...for what that is worth.....guess, that and $1 will get me a cup of java at the local coffeehouse hotspot.......

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 9 Jun 2008 12:59 pm

Carroll Hale wrote:"why is this thread even on here".....seems as if it is here to "START" a controversy.....and that seems to defeat the purpose of sgf in the first place...."a place for steel guitarist to learn and share knowledge".....somehow, I just dont get it...

Ok, to answer seriously:

I did not start the controversy about the players mentioned in the poll. My experience on this forum is that when a thread is started about any of those players, controversy erupts. On 6-string forums you can usually elicit the same reactions by mentioning John Mayer.

The question becomes: why is such and such a controversial figure in the PSG world? What is it about them or their playing that engenders such strong reactions? What do these reactions tell us about our preconceptions and value sets? What can we learn from this?

I also think it's funny

Les Green · Post by **Les Green** » 9 Jun 2008 1:09 pm

My steel playing has been controversial ever since I first started playing one some 45+ years ago. One person will say, "Man, that guy is terrible!" His buddy will say, "Naw, he's way SHORT of terrible! Drag him off the bandstand. I'll get the rope!" I respect and admire anyone who has the courage to set down behind a steel and try something new. I'll listen to them. As with the argument over traditional country and new country, if I don't like it, which is doubtful, I'll go listen to someone else.

Brian Straub · Post by **Brian Straub** » 9 Jun 2008 1:46 pm

This is kind of a ridiculous topic. Let me see. Controversy. Controversy because some individuals have there own style? I started playing steel about 7 months ago...I'm trying to acquire my own style of playing and not copy others. Has anybody seen a book of tabs by P. Franklin, S. Garrish, B. Emmons, L. Green, M. Johnson etc..? NO...you wont find one. This is because they want you to create your own style, be unique, etc. That is what Robert Randolph has done..That is what Jerry Garcia did. They don't create controversy they create their own uniqueness. That is what music is all about!! I have a few Intructional CD's from P. Franklin...his words still hold true...create your own style of playing...Don't copy others...just enjoy what they have created. Would you consider Duane Allman controversial. I would vote to close this ridiculous topic.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 9 Jun 2008 1:48 pm

...I can't believe Pete Drake ain't on this list!When I moved to Nashville 30 years ago,most other steel players were EXTREMELY critical of his playing...I always loved his playing and can't imagine what anybody else would have played on most of the records Pete was on...just my opinion.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 9 Jun 2008 2:04 pm

Joel Meredith wrote:None of these players should be considered "controversial", they're just doing their thing and you either like it or not...

Well said, Joel, well said!

One sentence that sums it all up.

Gabriel Stutz · Post by **Gabriel Stutz** » 9 Jun 2008 2:16 pm

Well, this thread was really helpful to me. I didn't know anything about Susan Alcorn, until this thread came up. It's a challenging listen, but I thought it was really interesting/beautiful to hear steel played that way, so thanks for that.

Gabriel

Carl Morris · Post by **Carl Morris** » 9 Jun 2008 2:23 pm

Thanks from me, too, for starting this thread. I don't like forum controversies myself, but at least this one gave me some names to go check out. Interesting stuff, even though some of it's not my thing.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 9 Jun 2008 2:27 pm

Bob Simons wrote:THis discussion is skirting the issues that frustrate me most about the steel guitar community. Having come late to steel guitar I found it to be an overwhelmingly narrow-minded community. While steelers are supportive and generous among their like-minded brethren, I was shocked when year after year at Scotty's show I heard only the same stuff over and over and over. I don't think a new lick has been added in 40 years.

This IS changing. 2 years ago Joe Wright and Sarah Jory turned on their fuzz tones and played a high energy rock and roll set and the crowd loved it.

Now the convention has a Saturday afternoon jazz program where players like Jim Cohen and Doug Jernigan perform.

Earlier this year in Phoenix, Doug "Earnest Bovine" Livingston played a piece by Bach and received a standing ovation when it was over.

There will always be the "if it ain't country it ain't music" crowd, but things are looking up.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 9 Jun 2008 2:39 pm

Hmm...Keeps coming back like a rash.

Duane Reese · Post by **Duane Reese** » 9 Jun 2008 3:06 pm

Twayn Williams wrote:The question becomes: why is such and such a controversial figure in the PSG world? What is it about them or their playing that engenders such strong reactions? What do these reactions tell us about our preconceptions and value sets? What can we learn from this?

I also think it's funny

Translation: this thread is flame bate.

Since the "powers that be" in the steel community aren't actually a governing entity, and can't hold anybody back on account of style... And since a general consensus about this will never form... I think it's safe to say nothing good will come out of this thread.

Unless you think a flame war is good.

I'd rather see those of a different style and approach do what they do, and be at peace with them.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 9 Jun 2008 3:17 pm

Jim, you're just an un-conventional guy.
But seriously, any friend of Sneaky Pete is a friend of mine.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 9 Jun 2008 5:17 pm

So far Robert Randolph is in the lead. Which actually surprises me. I'd have thought Jerry Garcia was a more guaranteed hackle raiser. Robert Randolph actually reminds me a bit of Speedy West, in a very round-about, oblique way...

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 9 Jun 2008 5:38 pm

Robert Randolph by far, then Jerry. IMO Jerry offered a lot more musically; his notoriety lies mostly with those that can't get past the hippie/drug connection and see what he had to offer. If someone gave me tickets to an RR show, I would give them away....maybe sell them if I was hard up. His music doesn't do anything for me. Most of Jerry's does. Flame away...my opinion, as always.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 9 Jun 2008 8:36 pm

Why is someone who plays music that doesn't appeal to you controversial?

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 9 Jun 2008 9:26 pm

Music is about emotions and passion. I think it's completely unrealistic to think that people who are seriously into music - especially full-time musicians who spend uncounted thousands of hours honing their craft - aren't gonna form strong opinions and make value judgements about music. In fact - in order to really create music, I think one must form strong opinions and make value judgements about what and how to write, play, and sing. This doesn't have to take the form of "I'm great, and you suck." value judgements, but the very fact that someone locks themself in a woodshed and molds themself into a particular type of musician speaks volumes for their passion about that particular approach. Do you really think they should just remain neutral about something they're so passionate about? Do you really think that is human nature? I don't. I agree that, in an ideal world, we would all be so enlightened that we completely understand - at a gut level - that everything is about point of view. But when you're down in the trenches sweating and trying to create something, maybe it's not so easy to see the view from the clouds. Not to mention the fact that much of the music biz is an incredibly competitive, zero-sum game where sometimes the only way to get ahead is to climb over somebody else. It ain't always pretty, and definitely not for the faint-of-heart.

I think the history of music is also relevant. Changes in music, like changes in culture, are sometimes very controversial. For example, in 1913, there was, literally, a riot in the Théâtre des Champs Élysées in Paris during a performance of Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring". There is a long history of booing and catcalling when new music was introduced in European classical music. Remember when Dylan strapped on an electric guitar at the Newport Folk Festival in 1965 and practically got booed off the stage by the resident folk-nazis? Controversy in music is nothing new, and it's not going to end now by simply decreeing "Hey, we should accept everyone, controversy is not allowed, Kumbaya."

So I don't think it should be out of bounds to talk about the whats, whys, and wherefores of controversial steel guitar music and players. If you muzzle this, it will just fester. It's there, like it or not. The only way I've ever seen real controversy lead to fruitful results was serious two-way discussion. Here on this forum, we can enforce a reasonable code of conduct for that discussion. There is nothing to be afraid of, as long as we respect each other. Better to talk this kind of stuff out. Anybody that doesn't want to be part of the discussion doesn't need to get involved. But I think it's pointless and even counterproductive to try to suppress it.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 10 Jun 2008 6:17 am

The steel guitar is an unique instrument and is able to play many styles and sounds--sometimes weird--makes it very diversified. This leads to controversy among steel players of the way they approach the instrument.Joe
www.willowcreekband.com

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 10 Jun 2008 6:24 am

Why is someone who plays music that doesn't appeal to you controversial?

I think that was Twayne's whole point - which is why I selected "other", since controversy should not exist over stylistic differences. At least in an ideal world.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 10 Jun 2008 8:08 am

Just play the darn thing!

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Most controversial PSG player Poll

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