A Teaching/Learning Problem

[Eugene Cole]

Les; I think that playing Bass and playing Steel are very different disciplines. I contend that they are different enough that a given person could possess an aptitude for one but not the other.

We all had to learn rhythm and to count at some point (hopfully early in our learning curve).

I have been playing instruments for over 30 years and even when I know a chord change is coming I still after all of these years go to the wrong chord frequently when I do not know the peice: I'll go to the iii instead of the ii for example.

BTW: what are "rides" and how do they differ from taking a break or improvisation? I have never heard this term among my circle of friends.

Regards
-E

[Charles Davidson]

Chris,[acid] rock? Maybe today it would be [crack rock] OR [Meth rock]? DYKBC.

[Dennis Coelho]

James: While your accomplishments are admirable, I would have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Because you ascribe persistence and determination as the sole causes of your musical success, you assume that those criteria would apply to anyone. But it is a little like some one who can easily jump up to the rim and stuff a basketball saying to the rest of us that it only takes determination and persistence, that anyone can do it.

There many who cannot "stuff" the basketball, or adequately play (or even understand) music, and an uninformed determination to achieve those goals will only lead to massive frustration if certain physiological and cognitive abilities are not already present.

There are many "talents" that are not evenly distributed through the human population, for example, the ability to quickly and fluently learn a second language, or achieve virtuoso ability as a child, or even as an adult. These are things that seem to have some genetic component. I'm sure you can think of many other such talents.

The military, which has massive and continuing needs for specific kinds of man power, long ago developed testing instruments based on the very idea of uneven distribution of skills and talents. They need to find those, for example, who can hear and transcribe morse code at a rapid rate, or those with superb hand-eye coordination to be snipers, or those who learn a second language, etc. They know through decades of testing how rare these skills and talents are.

There is probably somewhere in the literature of educational and cognitive psychology a determination of what constitutes musical skills at the 50th percentile of the human population. It would be interesting to know what those are.

[James Mayer]

Dennis, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just feel like there are proven methods for improving the various skills needed to play music. Anyone can memorize a fretboard. Anyone can then memorize scale patterns and understand how chords are based on them, etc. Anyone can count and beat their head against a metronome until some semblance of order is established. A musical ear may be the hardest part, but there are many many guitarists out there with undeveloped ears. Hell, reading sheet music doesn't even require one to hear at all.

I'm teaching my girlfriend to play her baritone ukulele. She already has a better ear than me and I'm not sure why. She learns chords fast but complains about playing scales across strings and points out that I do it easily. I then point out that I've logged many hundreds of hours playing boring chromatic exercises. I gave her the exercises and showed her how to use them with a metronome. If she doesn't practice and never improves, she'll probably come back and tell me that she doesn't have talent.

I'm not saying that everyone can be great. I'm saying that everyone, barring those with a serious learning disability, can be passable to good.

[Les Anderson]

I think one of the prerequisites for playing a steel guitar, pedal or non pedal, is a sense of rhythm and timing. There are no guideline frets on a steel guitar to begin with and getting that bar to sit in the exact spot needed to hit a note at precisely the right time, is an art within its self.

One of the most difficult aspects of the steel is to get the timing in sync with the rest of the band. The steel guitar is not strummed in unison with a rhythmic beat as the lead guitar, acoustic or bass. The steel guitarist is out their on his own with three or four strings being used if he/she wants a full chord, the bar must be moved in rhythmic tune with the rest of the band: if that bar is moved too fast you end up out of sync with the band and if you drag it to slowly, you are again out of sync. If that bar is off center of that imaginary fret, it stinks even more.

Trying to teach someone who has no inner sense, feeling or concept of rhythmic timing (or can’t hear it) to play a steel guitar is going to a very long uphill battle. It can be done but don’t expect to see another Buddy Emmons pass through your life.

Rhythmic timing in my mind, is the first thing to make or break a wanna be musician.

[Edward Meisse]

Rhythmic timing, in my mind, is the first thing to make or break a wanna be musician.

Amen and Halleluia!!

[Mark van Allen]

There's probably a good reason why the Sacred Steel tradition has evolved an apprenticeship of having adherents start on drums, followed by bass and rhythm guitar, before graduating to the steel chair.

Over many years of teaching, I've found that there are many different student responses to, and hence teaching approaches to, ear training, musical awareness, and "playing steel". It sometimes takes an incredible amount of patience to figure out just which method will ring the bell for a particular student. Every once in a while there is someone who really wishes they could play, but just isn't equipped for the journey. Fortunately, most people can make it if given the right stimuli.

I would suggest having him bring you songs HE LIKES which you can play along with and demonstrate timing issues. Then let him play, and if it takes it, breaking it down to a bar at a time, showing him how to fit chord changes into the song timing. A few painfully difficult lessons will either get him on the right path, or make it obvious that another direction is indicated. It's really worth the effort.

I'm reading a book right now about World War I aviation. We've all heard of what a legend Baron Von Richtofen was, but he was a truly lousy pilot until taken under the wing of his mentor Oswald Boelke... and went on to shoot down at least 80 enemy combatants. Not to add to the "gunslinger" mentality of musicianship, but there is an analogy to flying a weird contaption!

[Chris Walke]

Well, we had our session last night and we had some fun. Instead of him working on the steel guitar, I did the steel playing while he picked away on the bass. It was a blow out at first because the kid had no concept of how to keep a beat; no matter how we approached it.

So, what we did was play a couple of the modern rock and modern country rock that he and his friends listen to. He could keep a good rhythm count with that music because he could follow the heavy bass beat in that music. However, when he did not have that “beat to follow”, he had problems grabbing it on his own.

We ended up turning on my wife’s keyboard and started working with the electronic metronome. Slowly, as my wife played Your Cheating Heart he began to identify the count.

I had the kid pick at the bass guitar strings, any strings, just so he could get his fingers and mind working together on a steady and even rhythm. There may be hope still; however, I think he has to get away from being lead in to the beat and begin learning to feel it himself.

Can he learn to play a steel guitar? I must admit, I have some reserved feelings about that. Learning to play a bass guitar; possibly.

I think you're doing good work there, Les. Bringing these concepts into a context he can relate to a little better is a great way to start. Whether or not he becomes a steel player may still be up for grabs, but you're teaching him MUSIC, and who knows? He may realize he loves the bass guitar, and I don't know how it is where you're at, but around my home, bassists can be hard to find. As long as he's interested in learning and committed to practicing, he's worth the effort.