The Steel Guitar Forum

I agree with josh..the problems are with the players. I really havnt heard a version of that song I like better than the Tom Brumely one. what was that, steel vped and a fender amp?

TREMELO !!!!!

I think distortion pedals are the most annoying to me. I have never been able to understand why anyone would want to use a distortion pedal when they could have a properly-sized and properly-cranked tube amp. But YMMV.

If your amp doesn't have an effects loop and you are running a chain that includes delay and deep reverb, you'll probably be looking into pedal distortion as well.

Uh, not me. To my tastes, if I use a properly-sized tube amp, I don't need a distortion pedal. By properly-sized, I mean that it can be turned up enough to get the natural tube overdrive sound without being obnoxiously loud. No need for either an effects loop or pedal distortion using an old Fender - tweed, brown-panel, black-panel, silver panel, whatever, or a nice old Marshall. I have played a lot of rockabilly, surf, blues, whatever, and I often use deep reverb and/or delay for that kind of thing, but never really used a distortion pedal. But like I said, YMMV.

Dave Mudgett wrote:

I think distortion pedals are the most annoying to me. I have never been able to understand why anyone would want to use a distortion pedal when they could have a properly-sized and properly-cranked tube amp. But YMMV.

If your amp doesn't have an effects loop and you are running a chain that includes delay and deep reverb, you'll probably be looking into pedal distortion as well.

Uh, not me. To my tastes, if I use a properly-sized tube amp, I don't need a distortion pedal. By properly-sized, I mean that it can be turned up enough to get the natural tube overdrive sound without being obnoxiously loud. No need for either an effects loop or pedal distortion using an old Fender - tweed, brown-panel, black-panel, silver panel, whatever, or a nice old Marshall. I have played a lot of rockabilly, surf, blues, whatever, and I often use deep reverb and/or delay for that kind of thing, but never really used a distortion pedal. But like I said, YMMV.

So you have a reverb pedal running into an amp that is distorting? I could never get that to sound very good.

If a player doesn't always play everything at the same volume, if they know or care at all about dynamics, they might also find that running a tube amp at 7 or 8 to get that perfect tube distortion isn't always the perfect practical method, unless they want to set up more than one tube amp of different outputs with an A/B switch... and sometimes a distortion pedal is a more practical if not as sweet-sounding alternative.

(That said, it IS possible to get a better sound with a distortion box than an electric kazoo which I hear all too often.)

I have songs where I have to play a distorted lick in the intro in order to "play it like the record", which is quite soft, and others where I have to play a solo with distortion, louder, again "like the record". You don't get natural tube distortion at all different levels (with the same level of distortion) unless you have a master volume control on your amp and make adjustments while playing or between songs, or use two different amps...or a distortion box. Also, I can put the delay pedal after the distortion box and it sounds OK.

I don't see anything wrong with using distortion boxes in the right way...and if tone fanatics like Eric Johnson uses a Rat, along with his Marshall and Fender amps, it would seem to indicate that a distortion box can be used with a good tone (ever heard Eric Johnson with a bad tone?) and that there is a practical use for them...

Still, a lot of guys could work on getting a better sound from one. As some have posted, it's more in the player's hands than the effect, whether it stinks or sound good.

IMHO.

It seems that many of us are in agreement that chorus (or too much chorus) is not a good effect for steel. For those who like it, would there be a convincing argument for what it does to enhance your sound? I hear a lot of it on 80's steel. Did it see a peak in use during this period, or are many of us still out there in the bars stomping on it?

FLOYD ROSE TREM!!!

Cymbals and loud, loud, offbeats on the snare drum.

So you have a reverb pedal running into an amp that is distorting? I could never get that to sound very good.

No. An old Fender amp's reverb blows away any digital reverb unit, to my taste. But for guitar, I'm a vintage Fender kinda guy. Well, except when I use my old Magnatone, Gibson, Valco, or other old funky tube amps, which are different but also cool.

Of course, my idea of "distortion" may be different than yours. I'm not talking Big-Muff, Rat, or any other heavy distortion, but a tube amp being pushed at varying levels.

If a player doesn't always play everything at the same volume, if they know or care at all about dynamics, they might also find that running a tube amp at 7 or 8 to get that perfect tube distortion isn't always the perfect practical method, unless they want to set up more than one tube amp of different outputs with an A/B switch... and sometimes a distortion pedal is a more practical if not as sweet-sounding alternative.

There are varying levels of tube distortion - I like to not only have dynamics in volume, but dynamics in tonality. Personally, I usually prefer things to clean up some at lower volumes. But I have used multiple tube amps to get a mix of volumes at higher overdrive settings - let's say a Deluxe Reverb or 50-watt BF/SF Fender for louder stuff and something like a Princeton Reverb or even a Champ for lower volume. But I only need that under fairly unusual circumstances.

I'm not saying anybody should or shouldn't use a distortion pedal. But I find them frequently used in a way that I don't care for - not always, but often. That was my earlier point. But again - YMMV, that's cool.

Dave Mudgett wrote: But I have used multiple tube amps to get a mix of volumes at higher overdrive settings

Just wondering, what kind of switch did you use to switch between them?

Sure it's possible to do it this way and that would be great... but how many people have you heard of who set up 3 or more amps and switch between them all night? Some guitar-stars do... but it's not practical for the common working musician to lug and setup a carload of amps to every one-nighter or road gig. Multiple amps for different levels of natural tube distortion is more common for concerts than the everyday gig, for good reason.

Dave Mudgett wrote:I'm not saying anybody should or shouldn't use a distortion pedal. But I find them frequently used in a way that I don't care for - not always, but often.

No disagreement there... and in fact I might say that I probably find them objectionable quite often...as many have said, too many guitarists and steelplayers too, think that they have to turn the distortion waaaay up, use it on anything more upbeat than "green grass of home", (or even in something like that, yech!) or just have a kazoo-like tone... I HATE that.

But I still will say that a good distortion box used by a player with a good ear and some taste has its uses, and multiple amps are fine but not practical, unless you're the kinda guy who likes to bring 4 or 5 or more guitars to a gig... (I've been known to...!)... a big concert is one thing, but average gigs are another... as you say Dave, YMMV.

The switch was a handmade A/B/A+B switch with make-before-break switches - nothing fancy, but it did the job.

I know lots of players who play clubs with 2 or 3 amps. My main rig for a long time was a '57 Magnatone 260 run with a Tweed '58 Tremolux. But I've used tons of different stereo or triplex amp setups. I also love an old Gibson amp with an old Fender. My favorites are the GA-8T Gibsonette or the GA-20T Ranger. These things are tremendously underrated for guitar, IMO.

The thing about using a Deluxe or Vibrolux/Super Reverb with a Princeton Reverb, Champ, or little Gibson is that it isn't onerous at all. The little amp is almost no extra work. But I love having two or more significantly different tonalities to work with.

I find the flanger and too much chorus to be annoying. Less to me is always more.
Don

regarding distortion it depends on the amp and on the genre. There are tube amps that will not break up no matter how hard you crank em and there are genres that require more sludge than most amps can provide without a pedal. switching from clean to distorted and back midsong is another reason to want a pedal.

personally i find distortion to be a pleasing effect.
I dig monstrous smooth drive and extreme amounts of gain...not on a psg of course tho

Phase shifter, as in some of the Waylon Jennings stuff, it just went on and on. I remember when so many guitar players were using Peavey amps and using chorus to mask the midrangy sound of those amps, and since then I've been reluctant to use effects any amount. Speaking of tremolo, I would hate to have a guitar amp without it, but I only use it once in a while. A good example of tremolo used tastefully can be heard by listening to some of Tammy Wynette's recordings, just a little here and there and not in your face.

Chris LeDrew wrote:It seems that many of us are in agreement that chorus (or too much chorus) is not a good effect for steel. For those who like it, would there be a convincing argument for what it does to enhance your sound?

I had it on the Dunlop Rhotovibe, the "red" side, for a bit, and never understood (until I had already gotten rid of it) how to use it subtly. I HATED chorus, until I heard a "jazz/blues" player using an old BOSS model as his "leslie" It was one of the best leslie ems I'd ever heard, for way cheaper. Honestly, for me, it's not in the speed, but that silly intensity knob. I'm just guessing, but typically that's the one you don't want to turn up to 11 for every song.

I played with a guitar player who insisted on using the "push on the upper bout of the les paul at the neck joint to bend the chord" trick in every chord. It was his answer to the Bigsby. THAT was not something that made me smile.

A

I recently recorded a song with tremolo and was having a hard time making it sound less that obnoxious. I don't use it that often. I remembered reading somewhere that the key is to have the speed in time with the music in some form or another.

That did the trick. If you're having the same problem when using tremolo give this a try.

Same with delay, It should rhythmically work with the beat of the song. I have a tremolo effect I love to screw with, but cant see where I would ever use it. EHX pulsar. It can pulse between 2 amps. It scares the cat, which makes me happy. I hate the cat.