Before I make the leap to a dobro with pickup???

Rob Anderlik · Post by **Rob Anderlik** » 20 Oct 2007 6:47 am

I guess I'll stand alone on this issue:

I have a problem with the "mics are great/pickups are bad" argument: It's really based around my experience and firm belief that performance venue/live sound acoustics are extraordinarily inconsistent.

I've seen Jerry Douglas lots of times when he used the huge rack mentioned above and he sounded absolutely amazing! It's also true that on occasion that his live sound was "bad" despite the fact that he might be using the best/newest pickup & processing gear available.

Microphones usually, but not always produce the most natural acoustic tone. For example there are a few venues that I play (here in Chicago) where the room acoustics are such that my plugged-in rig sounds better, much better than a microphone. I want to make clear that I am not talking about volume here, but tone.

The problem with the "mics are great/pickups are bad" argument is that it assumes there you have to choose one or the other. A good quality microphone is an absolute necessity and is the logical "first choice" for live sound. Lots of players wind up putting a pickup in their guitar as a result of experiencing the frustrations of trying to get a consistent sound in live performance using only a microphone. Once again, microphone's usually work the best; but it sure is nice to have more than one option up your sleeve when you step into a performance venue.

Regards,
RobA

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 20 Oct 2007 6:57 am

I guess I'll stand alone on this issue:

No, not alone..

You might be able to get the "best" acoustic tone in the studio using a mic. All bets are off once you're in the real world.

It pays to have tools at your disposal.

Ask me how I know

hp

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 20 Oct 2007 9:36 am

how do you know Howard?

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 20 Oct 2007 10:08 am

I'm sure I've posted this on at least a few other threads this year about the setup for my Clinesmith:

1. Shure SM-57 mike.
2. Fishman passive pickup
3. ART Tube Microphone Preamp (I have been using this one a lot more recently than the considerably more expensive Fishman Platinum Pro EQ Preamp).

In-ear monitors, no floor wedges=no feedback issues. The drummer uses a Roland electronic V-Drum kit, so I don't have drums being picked up through the dobro setup - so overall, I have a pretty good situation for dobro on stage, and don't have to battle some of the issues others have with their band mates.

This all goes direct to the board, and I have the sound man blend it ballpark 35-40% pickup to 60-65% Shure mike.

Sounds reasonably natural.

For smaller venues, I have used the pickup into preamp into a Carvin AKG-100 acoustic amp, 100 watts, and I can get it to sound pretty decent.

That said, I am waiting for the new under-the-saddle pickup from Fishman to make its appearance, to be utilized with the Fishman Aura system. This is what Jerry Douglas has been using in the past couple years, combined with his mike, and I have seen him play 3-4 times with this setup, and it has never sounded anything like a lap steel.

The latest on this new Fishman unit is for release sometime in 2008.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 20 Oct 2007 10:56 am

Steve Norman wrote:did you use a carbon or wood bar instead of steel? That was the finisher with the Bobro for me. I use a goodrich carbon matchbro bar which Bobbe sells for about 30$ US. With the steel bar it doesnt seem to work a well. I also lift my trailing fingers on the bar so there is more string noise, which seems to sound more authentic too.

I didn't buy the carbon bar. I've tried it with a Dobro bar and with several bullet bars. The closest I've come is using a bar made of oak which my Grandfather turned up on a lathe about 50 years ago. I guess since I've invested in the BoBro I should go "the whole hog" and buy the carbon bar, too.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 20 Oct 2007 11:00 am

One thing that needs to be brought up is the fact that there is a design problem with all guitars which are played pointing upwards, resonator or not. The sound is projected upwards, and not towards the audience. If someone could come up with a design where the cone points towards the audience, but the strings remain horizontal, it would cure that problem, but it's difficult to imagine how such an instrument would go together.

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 20 Oct 2007 11:11 am

how do you know Howard?

Decades of appearing foolish on stage

==>Also on the new Fishman pickup, I'm hoping that all will be ready by Winter NAMM (Jan 2008).

I'm thinking/guessing that the concept will be to optimize the pup for use with the NexGen Aura mic imager.

Fingers crossed.

hp

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 20 Oct 2007 8:06 pm

Well, I've just found a very good deal on a Wechter Scheerhorn with Schertler Basik, maple resonator with F holes, and now most of ya'll are saying you get a more natural sound with an acoustic dobro through a mic.

I don't know, but I know if I get the one with the schertler Basik pickup N preamp in it, then I'll have it if need be. I also have an award session acoustic preamp I could hook up and then go to the board, and I can adjust my tone with the preamp. Tony, at "Pick N slide" on ebay told me today that he could get me the wechter scheerhorn with the Schertler Basik, almond maple color with hardshell case and free shipping, for $1000 even.
Tony said the maple would be louder than mahogany, and each string would be more even , volume wise than the mahogany.
Anybody agree with Tony on this? The maple resonators that I've seen on different websites, are usually higher priced than the mahogany. He said he could get me the Mahogany resonator with Schertler Basik for $900, I'm thinkin that includes case and free shipping. Which do ya'll prefer, mahogany, or maple guitars? Man, this is gettin confusing.
If I don't need a pickup,just play through my SM 57 into the board, then I can get a new wechter scheerhorn for $750.00 with case and free shipping. and use the rest of my money to get other stuff I
could use. I'm not sure what to do. I want a natural tone, and if that means playing an acoustic dobro through my SM57 into the board then maybe that's my best bet. Thanks for ya'lls advice.
Terry

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 20 Oct 2007 10:45 pm

Ron Frazier would be another to ask, He built Norm Hamletts "Robro". One thing he told me was to use steel strings for magnetic pickups, since bronze is not magnetic. I think something else we need to remember is that for live shows, good technique outweighs bad tone. I hate watching musicians balk because they are not feeling it on stage. It is very awkward to the crowd. Audiences take there que more from the players than the music. We can nail the tone in the studio and then sell the cd through our smiling "isnt this the best dobro you've ever heard" act on stage. In the car ride home the'll put in the cd and go "wow they sounded great! And other steelers at the show will be happy to hear another steel sound worse than their own!

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 20 Oct 2007 10:53 pm

Oh Yeah, what I meant to say: Terry I think having the pickup is not going to effect the accoustic tone if it installed properly, so why not have it? I have 2 on mine, a fishman that I NEVER use but am to lazy to take out, and a lace that is adhered (taped) near the neck with the jack zip tied to the cover plate. (lalala..In the gheeto..) Looks bad but sounds fine acoustically. I play noisy bars with spastic bandmates! The sound guys up hear look at me like I have underwear on my head when I say I need to mic a dobro. You may find yourself playing that sheerhorn up here someday, and Yours will look much much better and you will have the option to plug in when you need it.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 21 Oct 2007 10:06 am

The sound guys up hear look at me like I have underwear on my head when I say I need to mic a dobro

LOL Steve!!

Terry

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 22 Oct 2007 7:50 pm

So tonight I switched to John Pearse nickel g-tuning strings, vs the J.P. Phos/broze I usually use on dobro, and it made a 100% improvement in my amplified sound. So, I thoroughly recommend the Lace dobro sensor, just bridge-side of the three holes by the neck, about 3/16 from the strings, with the g-tuning NICKEL John Pearse reso strings. It sounded good, clear, balanced and feedback free, with a long(18ft) cable, no pre-amp, through a music man amp (112 rp 60watt). It sounded like a dobro! Tomorrow at band prac. I will run it through My baggs di with shorter cables and a bobro(for more boost) into my Steel King, and into the P.A.
I think My quest is over, Until I hear the Highlander that is, But Im gonna stock up on the lace p/ups before they stop making them. The End, by Steve Norman

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 22 Oct 2007 8:22 pm

Steve, I also use the Pearse nickel strings. I like em better than the bronze i was using, they seem to have more bite, and I like bite. I might just get me a wecther scheerhorn mahogany with F holes for $750 and stick me one of them lace pickups on it and run it through my Award session preamp to the board and see what I can get for tone. That will leave me almost $500 that I can use for other musical toys I might need.

That is if I sell my amps and Goldtone on Ebay. It ain't lookin good at all, only about 14 hours to go on all my ebay items, and only one bid on one amp, but 5 watching both amps and 4 watchin my Goldtone. All I can do is hope

Terry

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 22 Oct 2007 9:51 pm

I am pretty happy with it, I dont know any thing about the shertler p-up tho. Ive never heard the Schertlers, or the Highlanders, so Im basing my opinions versus the fishman and the acoustic feather thingy. I'd hate for you go with the lace and hate it on my advise. I will try and record something with the pickup and send it to you. The miked sound of my dobro w/out pickup is on 2 of the songs on Carrie Biell's myspace

www.myspace.com/carriebiell

Songs "Dive and Cross the Line"

I'll go pickup into my steel king and record from the line out in back so you can compare. Next couple of days I'll get it to you.
Steve

My family is from Pine Bluff and in the woods near Hope Ark.
Wish I was down there right now.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 23 Oct 2007 9:11 am

Hey, didn't know you were from AR, I've lived in ELDorado, Magnolia, and grew up in Hampton way down in the sticks. Matter of fact, I'm still livin in the sticks, bout 20 miles out of EL Dorado. This cool weather has got me wantin to bring out my matthews MQ1 and stick me a buck.

Terry

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 23 Oct 2007 9:29 am

Grew up in Shreveport La, but my mom and dad where from Ark. Dad was WAY back in the woods. No electricity well water all that. Mom was high fulooten city from Pine Bluff. She used to date Jim Ed Brown. After I got out of the Marines I moved to Seattle to be with a girl and never left. Miss the South tho

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 23 Oct 2007 4:04 pm

Well Im to stupid to upload the track of the dobro pickup, And I couldnt attach it to the e-mail I sent you Terry, If you respond to my email I can get you the lace pickup track

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 23 Oct 2007 5:42 pm

Ok Steve, I sent you an email. Thanks

Terry

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 25 Oct 2007 10:36 pm

Dimensions/ specs

Installed height including the mounting tape is approimately 3/8" (9.53mm). Includes 30" (762.00mm) shielded cable with endpin attachment loop and inline 1/4" (6.35mm) jack. The pickup is 2-3/4" (69.85mm) long and 21/32" (16.67mm) wide. 4.1K ohms.

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Before I make the leap to a dobro with pickup???

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