This made me mad, then sad

Roger Smith · Post by **Roger Smith** » 14 Dec 2005 9:33 am

Hi Steinar-
Another course of action is to contact the Better Business Bureau for his town. If you do a search of Farmingdale, ME or Maine in general, you should be able to locate it. Report him for:
1) Taking money, never sending merchandise and no proof of shipment, etc
2) Fabricating a story to sell merchandise

Most businesses don't take kindly to this sort of action.
Good luck.

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 14 Dec 2005 9:35 am

One of the issues of using the internet is documenting shipments.
I always use UPS, even for small tiny things that can be sent in the mail because they have tracking numbers.
Is it possible the guitar really was lost in shipment and the guy can't find his delivery documents?
It seems if someone is going to deliberately set out to scam people, he would do it in easier ways than setting up shop as a guitar builder, then pretending to ship guitars in order to collect money??

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 14 Dec 2005 9:46 am

Is it possible the guitar really was lost in shipment and the guy can't find his delivery documents?

Yes it is, which is why I haven't made much fuzz about it until now, but decided to forget about the whole thing and move on.

But he's lied to me before, and that's why I find it a bit hard to believe. I've probably been involved in 150-200 US/Norway transactions through the net (no, not all of them were guitars...) and only had one other package disappear during shipping. This was a compressor from a shop in New York, and was covered by the USPS without any problem.

It's just too much of a "coincidence"... But I can't prove anything, and incidentally,- neither can he (I would assume the burden of proof is on his shoulders, not mine)..... As I said, I had written this whole thing off as a loss, if it just hadn't been for this article showing up. That's where it went one step too far.....

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Jack Knight · Post by **Jack Knight** » 14 Dec 2005 9:50 am

Steinar, I have e-mailed Mr. Brown and let him know that I will never do business with him.

Thanks for the tip. I'll stick with the reliable builders and support the builders that support us.

Best Regards, Jack

Dan Peterson · Post by **Dan Peterson** » 14 Dec 2005 9:55 am

SOMEBODY, or 'everybody' needs to make this JERK aware of the fact that there are over 5,366 current active members of STEEL GUITAR FORUM, who will boil him in oil, (or at least hurt his biz a lot!!) What he has done is completely UNACCEPTABLE in my view! Mass emails, or snail mails to him are in order. Take the time to do this please. This could happen to any one of us, at the risk of sounding cliche, 'United we Stand'..or is it divided we get the shaft from an unscrupulous wanna-be guitar maker? Let's not let him get away with this!

dan

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 14 Dec 2005 10:06 am

Eric Brown

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 14 Dec 2005 10:23 am

Sorry to hear about your troubles Steinar.
Thanks for the pix, Rick.

This Eric guy is not a happy camper.

Why does he look so pissed off?

What? he get's to work on guitars all day and lobster's 50 cents a pound in Maine?... Tough life, sheesh!

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 14 December 2005 at 10:33 AM.]

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 14 Dec 2005 10:30 am

Steinar, I'm very sorry to hear this story. The steel community is by and a large a very tight-knit, good group of people. You were treated very badly here and I hope the collective buying and info power of the forum will run this guy into the ground. You might want to notify eBay as well as the local chamber of commerce and the Maine Better Business Bureau.[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 14 December 2005 at 12:45 PM.]

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 14 Dec 2005 10:32 am

I just emailed him.
he is feeling the ire of Steel Guitar Forum.

keep it up steelers.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 14 Dec 2005 10:32 am

Tony said:
It seems if someone is going to deliberately set out to scam people, he would do it in easier ways than setting up shop as a guitar builder, then pretending to ship guitars in order to collect money??"

Oh no? Ever heard fo the resonatorguitar.com scam? Lots of orders made and no actual delivery. Matt Roe / Raymond Bose.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 14 Dec 2005 10:35 am

Here's a little email 'dumplin' for the gent. Can't wait to hear from him.

"Steinar Gregertsen, from Norway, one of your clients, previously states you "stiffed him" on an ebay item. Knowing there are always 2 sides to every story, I among over 5000 steel guitar forum members, would like to hear your side. If you cannot find it in your heart to do so I would be satisfied to hear that also. Even though I am a professional writer for a publication in the Ft Worth/Dallas Metroplex, this does not constitute any type of interview, but as a private citizen I'm very interested in the treatment of individuals who do not reside in the United States. Too, I'm considering doing an article, with examples, of how our merchants treat foreign clients, when there are operations out of the public eye such as your transaction with Steinar.

Thanking you in Advance
Fred Shannon, Senior Columnist
Ellis County Press"

Phred

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 14 Dec 2005 10:41 am

It seems if someone is going to deliberately set out to scam people, he would do it in easier ways than setting up shop as a guitar builder, then pretending to ship guitars in order to collect money??

In all fairness,- he HAS delivered to other customers (including one that was ordered on my recommendation

) so he's 'for real' (his Telecasters has a fairly good reputation as far as I can understand), but perhaps he thought he could get away with it since I was a "nobody" from a small country on the other side of the globe. Some of his other actions during this period indicates that.
As I said,- I don't think he fully understand the new Internet age. Perhaps he will now....

BTW - I have emailed him now, demanding that he contacts the editor of Capital Weekly and have the part including me removed from the article, and that he comes up with a solution regarding the missing guitar/money.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 14 December 2005 at 10:42 AM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 14 Dec 2005 10:46 am

Thanks Fred! One little detail though,- it was not the eBay guitar he 'stiffed' me on, but the custom order I placed after that.

Just making sure all details are correct, I don't want to cause any misunderstandings or misinformation..

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 14 Dec 2005 11:00 am

There's one more thing that I'd like to clarify:

For me, it is not so much the money (don't have many of them either way) although that is bad enough, but it's the use of my name in a fabricated story. Add to that the fact that he never delivered the goods, and it's just too much.

In this Internet age, I find it extremely important to protect my privacy and especially - my integrity (though judging from a few goofy photos I have posted, some may find that hard to believe..

).

What I feel has happened here is that Eric Brown has violated both,- he has intruded on my privacy by using me to promote his guitars without permission, and even worse - he has hurt my credibilty by doing so in a fabricated story.

This is a very serious matter, my personal integrity is extremely important to me, and I will guard it by any means available to me.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 14 Dec 2005 12:16 pm

Steinar, that's pretty clear. The story does need to be corrected or retracted. I certainly concur with your concern about that.

As for the guitar and the money, it's his responsibility to make certain that you get what you paid him for or refund your money. It doesn't matter whether it's $40, $400, or $4000.
He took your money and ripped you off. He needs to make it right. If he doesn't we should make sure everybody who might ever buy a steel guitar knows about this.
Oh, wait a minute - we're already doing that.

Eric Brown had better contact you and make reparation very soon or the entire steel guitar community will have him pegged for the dirty dealer that he is.

Here are his email addresses for your convenience.
ebbtone09@aol.com
ecb@mint.net
Rick is right - it's Hammer Time!

and Steinar, I'd be willing to bet there isn't even one forumite who doesn't want to hear ALL the details. This is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be told in its entirety.
Inquiring minds want to know.
[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 14 December 2005 at 06:17 PM.]

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 14 Dec 2005 12:19 pm

Cross posted to the International Acoustic Guitar Seminar site where Steiner has a LOT of friends.[This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 14 December 2005 at 12:26 PM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 14 Dec 2005 12:31 pm

Rick, thanks, I received an email from him a little while ago, and I am contemplating what to reply. If he gives his permission I will post it here, so that he can present his version of this.

The absolutely worst thing that happened during this "transaction" was that while I waited... and waited.. 2 months.... 4 months.. 6 months... while he claimed that the guitar was "in production" but delayed for various reasons - the real truth was that the guitar had been ready all the time but he had let a friend borrow it for several months, apparently to test it's "road worth", and get opinions from other US players.
This was so far out that I couldn't even get really mad at the time, some stuff is so weird that you don't know whether to laugh or cry.

It was a friend of mine who found this out, during a phone conversation with him, and when I confronted him with it he apologized and promised to get the guitar back and ship it asap. At the time I just thought that "Oh well, what the heck, I just want the (&%&%"/& guitar and be done with it without any more hazzles...."

Then, as you know, the guitar never arrived, he claim to have shipped it and I can't prove he hasn't, so there it stands...

I'll reply to his email and keep you posted, hopefully we will be able to sort this out without any more trouble.....

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 14 Dec 2005 12:38 pm

"friend borrow it for several months, apparently to test it's "road worth", and get opinions from other US players."

Well, I guess it's a used guitar then. He should discount accordingly.

I've never heard of such a thing. The idea that I wouldn't be the first to play an instrument I had custom built sends willies up my spine.

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 14 Dec 2005 12:43 pm

Right on, Bill!

I can't prove he hasn't

But he can't prove he has, and that's his responsibility - not yours.

If he had any kind of integrity he wouldn't just shine you on and BS you this way. I know how upsetting this kind of thing is, and no honorable builder would let it happen.
Why don't you print his email and we'll all answer it!

Charles Dempsey · Post by **Charles Dempsey** » 14 Dec 2005 12:45 pm

I've bought and sold mucho stuff on the internet. The buyer can do nothing to assure delivery, so the burden is always on the seller. If he didn't insure the guitar that's his problem. If he has no documentation that's his problem.

If communications with the guy have broken down then you're doing the right thing by posting on the forum because that's about all you can do. We can talk BBB and mail fraud until the cows come home, but in their eyes it's a case of "he said she said".

Charlie

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 14 Dec 2005 12:48 pm

Yeah Bill, if he'd wanted a few selected players to test it before shipping, and asked my permission, that would have been okay with me (but not a whole tour, which happened in this case).. But simply letting a guy keep it for months, while telling me that it was still in production, that's not the best way to build trust, to put it like that.

But again, I'll write back to him very soon, and I hope we can sort it out and finish the whole thing. I hate stuff like this, I just want to live in peace, play my music, have a few beers and enjoy the Scandinavian blondes... I don't need stuff like this.....

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 14 Dec 2005 1:29 pm

That's the worst part of something like this - having to to shift your focus from your art to dealing with duplicity.
People that treat customers in such an underhanded way need to be boycotted and drummed right out of business.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 14 Dec 2005 1:39 pm

"live in peace, play my music, have a few beers and enjoy the Scandinavian blondes"

Okay, now I have no sympathy for you.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 14 Dec 2005 1:39 pm

Good one, Phred.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 14 Dec 2005 1:57 pm

Steinar I straightened out the eBay thing with him via email and I have heard back from him and I've asked him permission to post his answer on the Forum. He has not replied to the request and I won't put it on until he agrees. He has a different side though I can tell you that.

Phred