The Steel Guitar Forum

I agree, Brint.

Here's an odd thing - while I like my G# 3rd string to be a touch flat, I like my 6th string to be pretty well straight up. My 'A's (with the B pedal) are, of course tuned identically. I know this is straying from the discussion a bit, but I think it's an illustration of how differently an individual player likes his or her guitar to be tuned.

My earlier remark directed at Calvin was meant to be a very general observation, and not a hard-and-fast rule for the A/F dilemma.

RR

hey Roger up till this thread i just thought an F was and F no matter how you play it , but i guess it does mattter

Slide from A+F on the I chord back one fret to A+B on the V chord. In key of G, this is 6AF to 5AB. Just an example.

thanks bOb, and Fred for the variation on that.
I liked that and was able to work out a few licks with it

Ben Jones wrote:

Slide from A+F on the I chord back one fret to A+B on the V chord. In key of G, this is 6AF to 5AB. Just an example.

thanks bOb, and Fred for the variation on that.
I liked that and was able to work out a few licks with it

Similarly, you can slide from a pedals down I chord up to the IV chord using A+F. In the key of G this would be 10AB to 11AF.

If you don't know the A+F position, you get in the mindset that you can only go down or way up to get from that 10th fret G chord to a C chord. I've heard a lot of people who are stuck in that rut. This is why knowing the A+F positions is so important.

Jeff Newman had my class write out a chart for simple 1-6-4-5 progression prior to playing along with the track's. The only catch was you could only use each position once per verse and you had to go to the closest position of the next chord and it was 3 verses total. Give that a try in G, and you'll find out in no time flat that the A/F position is one handy little piece of the puzzle.
JE:-)>

can i get an F# minor on the 9th fret with A/f ?

Calvin Walley wrote:can i get an F# minor on the 9th fret with A/f ?

No.

b0b wrote: A full scale is available without moving the bar at the A+F position.

can you show me that scale in the a/f position?

[tab]b means lower, # means raise, X means double-raise

1 ___________________________________________6_______
2 ___________________________________6_______________
3 _______________________________________________6___
4 ___________________________________6b__6#__6X______
5 ________________________6b__6__6X__________________
6 ____________________6______________________________
7 ________________6__________________________________
8 ________6b__6#_____________________________________
9 ___________________________________________________
10____6X_____________________________________________
G A B C D E F G A B C D
[/tab]
It's the same notes as the C scale. Note that you need a 5th string lower (B to A#) to get the complete scale. Most people have that change nowadays.

Thanks, thats gonna change some things! :D

Is the F natural vs # because its the mixolydian mode?

Steve Norman wrote:Is the F natural vs # because its the mixolydian mode?

Yes. If you want the major 7th tone, you have to use a split tuner (A pedal + X lever) or half-pedal the 5th string.

Thanks, lot to wrap my head around. Dave Berzansky was kind enough after a Hacieanda Bros set in Seattle to show me the A/F major chord position, I had no Idea how much it would open up my own playing. After watching him play I felt like selling the gfi and crying...he knew that position would help.

Some songs have a chord change from G to E (Gimme Three Steps). The third fret AF move, I think in that song and others has a nice sound. From my first months playing, I had enough of an ear to see (hear) that AF sounded right with the bar slightly sharp.

I also think it is a useful alternative sound to go to your 4th one fret up.

DJ

this song was made famous by the f level key of D strings 4&5 pedals a down at 5th fret hit it slide back to 1st fret bringing in the f level and back up to 5th fret again with pedal a you will hear it when you try it. nice 7th chords as well with out the a pedal 3rd fret open for G slide to 6th fret with f level only nice G7th but also a G there with A pedal with it.

this song was made famous by the f level key of D strings 4&5 pedals a down at 5th fret hit it slide back to 1st fret bringing in the f level and back up to 5th fret again with pedal a you will hear it when you try it. nice 7th chords as well with out the a pedal 3rd fret open for G slide to 6th fret with f level only nice G7th but also a G there with A pedal with it.

What a great thread this is. Learning about this AF position has tied so much stuff together for me. As a newby to steel, All the scales I've been learning as seemingly unrelated fragments are coming together in a big picture because of it. I see that using A pedal/F lever and/or AB pedals plus D lever give all the diatonic chords of the key sandwiched between NP and NP octave, with the various scale patterns being defined as just the movement from one such chord to the next. Phew!

Like on strings 3,4 & 5, using A pedal and F lever, you get the root inversions of all seven of the diatonic chords (from NP to NP octave), and the harmonized major scales on 3&4, and 4&5, using A&F are just pieces of those seven chords.

The same thing happens when using the AB pedals and D lever (root on string 6). The seventh diatonic chords in both these groupings get a little weird though. Being a diminished triad, it doesn't quite line up on a single fret, and the scale patterns seem to need to be broken up between adjacent positions there.

Of course, its one thing to know this, and another to be able to make music with it--I gotta get busy on that part.

I play with a singer songwriter that doesnt want to sound "to" country for some reason, so sometimes I like to throw in this lick: the song is C, a/f at the the 11th fret, leave f on and pick strng 5 hit a,then pick strng 4,repeat a couple of times times then slide to open 8 or up to 15 ab for an ending or when the band is hanging on the Cmaj. kinda asserts the steel... crowd likes it But I think it makes the singer wince.