The Steel Guitar Forum

I agree with Tony. The record is what people have heard and they identify with, that is the version they want to hear not yours or mine. I don't think anyone really expects a note for note performance, most people even players would not know if it were note for note. People want the song to be identifiable. When I play together again, I will play the break on 3 & 5 pretty close to Tom Brumbly. I may then go up the neck a ways and put my own spin on it, but, it is still identified as together again, even if you walk in during that portion. I once heard a band play Folsom Prison Blues, twice because I requested it. I never heard it the first time they played it, and I heard it but did not recognize it the 2nd time they played it. Don't know what it was but I know it wasn't FPB.

I have agree with the majority of the posters on this topic: many country hits have signature lead ins, phrases and breaks by individual instruments; not just the steel guitar.

Most of Charlie Pride's hits can be recognized by the first three or four beats and licks that go along with them. I have learned a long time ago that you just don't do your own thing with a Hank Williams song.

On the other hand, duplicating (instrumentally) every hit song we back turns us into musical puppets. Another thing here, last night was the first time that I have ever been approached and told that my steel work was not like it was on the song’s hit record.

I've always had the idea that that the people that want it just like the record, don't know enough about music to improvise and come up with anything on their own. Tjhey're pretty much dependant on what others have come up with. Larry

When I couldn't figure out my own licks from a recording I stopped worrying about trying to play it just like the record. I do agree though that sometimes there a signature parts that need to be close to the original unless you're trying to make it a complete different arrangement.

Jim Cohen wrote:Actually, over the years, I've found that the ones who are most insistent that you play every beat note-for-note like the record are the line-dancers. And with good reason: they've timed their every move to every note and if you don't play that note, they trip and fall down! (It's kinda fun to watch that happen sometimes... )

Friends don't let friends line-dance.

All I was saying is ,if you are musician with an open mind, it can be quite beneficial and fun to learn things like the record.I did not imply that is all one should do,but if called to do so don't be afraid to try it once in a while.It certainly won't stifle anyones creativity.

If I do a song like the record, I figure it's my little tribute to a guy whose playing I admire. I don't figure I have to, as most people won't know the difference anyway. Some gigs, it's just fun to wing it. If I do learn something note for note, over time my own ideas creep into it.

To further bash the line dancers, we were playing a club during the height of the craze, sitting backstage listening to the line dance lessons. It's a good band and we can do all the songs they're practicing to, so we know we're going to be a big
hit when we get out there. You guessed it, they
wouldn't dance to anything we played. They could only dance to the records, not a band playing the same arrangements, signature licks and all.

If the song has a'signature entro' or a "signature fill", I play the entro and fills as best I can so the song is recognizable. Don't forget, the people are not working for you or trying to please you, you are working for them and should try to please them. Jody.

You guys are a tough crowd. If I ever play a steel show again, I sure as hell ain't gonna play "Way To Survive".

I get great satisfaction from figuring out intro's and fills and "signature licks" from every song we play. A lot of my heroes took the time to figure them out and record them in the first place, so, why not an emulate a good thing. On the other hand, my band will often play extended versions of tunes and that leaves me room to use my innovative ways. Improvisation is a good way to figure out what works and what doesn't. It'll also open up your playing options to use different variations of a "signature lick".

I play a lot of original music. So - for good or for bad - the way I am playing those is the original way it was or will be played on the record.

But if I don't feel like playing it like the record, I don't play it like the record. Don't get me wrong - I think it's good to be able to play signature licks correctly. But neither I or the people I play with are interested in being human jukeboxes, no matter what anybody wants. That's the bag we do.

As for line dancers, if we ever had them, we would evenly space tables regularly throughout the dance floor and have friends cop those tables and stay put.

Seriously - line dancers would scare away most people who are into the stuff we do. When in Rome or something like that.

Larry Lorows wrote:I've always had the idea that that the people that want it just like the record, don't know enough about music to improvise and come up with anything on their own. They're pretty much dependant on what others have come up with. Larry

I hope this doesn't say what it sounds like it says, because if it does it's really incorrect. Sorry Larry but your idea is mistaken.

Actually it's the other way around as Eric mentioned earlier on.

IF you need to, or desire to play it like the record you do, if you CHOOSE not to you don't. Maybe you embellish and play SORT of like the record but with extra zing...

Clyde basically says the same thing..

You have the option...

But if you CAN'T play it like the record then you are stuck playing it your own way and nothing can help you if someone asks you to play the signature licks or close to it.

Playing signature licks is not a cop out or a copy cat thing, it does not imply that you ae not a free thinker and cannot jam..what it implies is that you KNOW THE SONG AND CAN PLAY IT.

period.

Knowing how to play it like the record has nothing to do with how much you know about Music or what your jamming ability is, but it does show something else, it shows you sat at home and practiced.

period

sorry..

If you CAN actually learn signature licks it will actually assist in the Steel Guitar education.

What people know about Music and how they pressnt it on the Bandstand are two totally unrelated subjects.

IF we are playing in a traditioanl Country band for example that covers Merle, Waylon, George, AJ , G Strait..to me the requirement is obvious and clear, play the songs, don't pretend to play the songs. When it's time to jam and open up, then jam and open up.

Do you play your own made up parts on Together Again ? Does nobody play the signature solo on Workin Man Blues before the lead in to the open JAM ?

Someone in the band has to play the song..if you have a Guitar player and a Steel player doing there own thing then what exactly do you have ?

Unless of course it is just a JAM band or an original Band, but wait, even originals Bands have dedicated parts.

Bob mentions his band has 3 CD's.( awesome by the way ) I wonder if when Bob's band goes out and plays they play it like there CD's ?

IF he does he would be playing it like the record

I am confused...

I have read many a post and seen many an instructional video that clearly states that we, as PSG players, should be playing the melody. If that's the case, how can there be an argument? The melody is the melody, plain and simple. The melody is the same whether it's the record, or a live performance by a bunch of noobs (like me). If I cannot play the melody, I cannot play the song.... as a noob, I can't play many songs

Or is the melody just a safe place to be while you are developing your technique in order to tastefully deviate from same? On 6-string, if I ever get lost on the neck in a 'solo', the melody is always there to rescue me if I need to rein things in a bit.

I have been a member of a local group for several years, and we have always made the songs our own, and have never received a complaint... but then again we are very conservative in our approach. We'd rather have 10 people ask us to turn up than one ask us to turn down. I think it's all about attitude... if you're going to stand (or sit) up there and 'pose' then you'd best have the chops to pull off the real thing. If you represent yourselves as good ol' folks just having fun playing music together, your audience will be a lot more forgiving. During breaks, before/after the gig, we are all out talking to our audience, soliciting feedback, just 'hanging out' and to my knowledge in over 10 years we have never had anyone comment on how we do not sound like the record.

I might add that there have been verrrry few instances where we had to deal with the line dancers - we do Paul Jones dances instead!

We try not to imitate, nor mutilate....



Landon Johnson

Well TP, I wondered if anybody else got that..

It's come especially clear in my last two years rededicating myself to Tele.

Intros to Memphis, Ramblin Fever, Sweet Home, My Next Broken Heart, and from Only Hell to Tequila Makes her clothes fall off, and HUNDREDs of others are what you should probably play, or at least be able to.

It's just a tiny bit lame to just noodle around on a 1-4-5-1 turn around when you can do a whole lot better.

The Pedal Steel Guitar being such a "Mystical" and "Egocentrically Esoterical" Instrument excuses a lot of people from learning things that they should know. I oughta know. I've excused endless Tons of Noodles over more than a couple thousand gigs. I hereby Confess.

There's enough sour grapes to make a lot of wine in this one. Not that there aren't several passable "excuses"..

Nothing wrong with a little Cheese.



FHLE

I think it is great that a member of the audience actually knows what the instrument is and what the intros and turnarounds should sound like. Although she could have put her opinion more diplomatically, I would rather play to people like this lady than a load of morons who don't even know, care about or appreciate what a steel guitar is.

Me too.



FHLE

Uhhmmm..As I was reading the post above regarding MELODY,a very good observation by the way..

I was struck by a 25 pound Bar in the head...

( make believe of course )

I will use the great John Hughey for an example..
( sorry..or maybe thanks, John)

I have seen John at shows play Look at Us , many times..

He plays the Into, just like the record, then he plays the Melody ( no Vince) then he plays the SOLO..Just like the record., which we all love...

and everyone in the room stands and applauds..

then he reverts back to the Melody
( no Vince again)

Then he plays the stock ending as heard on the record...

What a rebel !

Dick Wood wrote:Never had that happen but I recently had a pretty old woman walk up to the stage and say "turn up the steel because we can't hear it at the back of the club".

This has been a great thread. I was just wondering...is the woman refered to above actually VERY old or an old woman who is PRETTY?

I'll remember to take a huge sign to gigs, "No linedancing during the intro."

I'm an artist. You don't have to like it, just respect it as it my Interpretation.

Landon brings up a point; "the melody is the melody". Well, yes, but there are many, many ways to play the melody. Sometimes the player on the record doesn't play the melody. I'm sure there are some on the Forum who think I'm a musical loose cannon who just jams through every song with no regard to anything except my ego. Not true. I believe establishing the melody is essential in a solo! Even on a "twice around" I have always established the melody the first time around and then maybe jammed a bit the second time around. But still, a bit of the melody line was apparent. If you aren't playing the song, what are you playing? There is a place for jamming but the gig usually isn't it! I CAN play an arrangement believe it or not. I recorded several cuts on various demo tapes on Dobro many years ago. I was being paid good money to play it just exactly like the leader/singer wanted it. He read and had perfect pitch. Believe me I played it just like he wanted it! Boring, but it paid the bills. But I'm not several great steel players and my lead singer isn't several great Country singers so we always did it our way. It was fulfilling and we never had any complaints. I guess we all have and have had different experiences that's all. There is no right or wrong way.

Will you ever be able to play it like the record?
For example,one of my favourite songs is I can't stop loving you.
How should we play it?
Don Gibson?
Ray Charles?
Jerry Lee Lewis?
I have no doubt there are many more versions which are good.
We could go on and on ad infinitum and still be unable to play it like the record which was the favourite of every listner.
I have always found that if you play the song in a recognisable way it is well accepted.
Best regards
Billy

Well Tamara I knew somebody would chime in on the pretty old woman reference. She was very old but pretty seemed better since I'm not too far from very old myself.

She was nice looking for a very old woman.

Bill Dobkins wrote:[
You should clarify the Jim Beam statement: Is that glasses or bottles.

It depends on the crowd

We try to announce during the night for the line dancers to stay on 1 side of the dance floor and leave an area for the other dancers. One other point about line dancers, if they know how to dance, they can dance to anything. We have people line dancing to Buck Owens songs all the time. Those line dancers get their water from brown bottles now that I think about it!

John,I used to play the Grizzly Rose in Denver and it was amazing to see 2500 people line dance to Silver Wings and even an occasional Waltz.