Winnie Winston Book Question

[John Billings]

Sounds like you might need to adjust the vertical knee so that it hangs lower.

[Tony Prior]

The phrase played at the 7th fret requires NO Peds or Levers

play grip 9,7 and 6 at the 7th fret A, C# and Eb..

A nice gliss up to the 7th fret brings it in nicely with a little attitude..

Also regarding the Bb lever , it's not uncommon to see a player lift there left knee up aggressively to engage it..I do...on the positive side it insures your foot is OFF the AB peds.

BUT, there are many phrases where you want the B pedal pressed along with the Bb lever as this lever will drop the note 1/2 tone from the raised B pedal position as well. This can give you 4 notes on the
5th string including the natural.

Too much to comprehend here

good grief

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

The advantages of barefoot are ample if you have simianesque toes like me:


Just plant that apeish big toe on the B pedal and pivot all around!!



Dan

[Tucker Jackson]

Andy, as far as whether you should lift your whole leg when engaging that vertical knee lever, it all depends.

The best scenario is when you're in a playing situation where you happen to have one or more pedals down. Then it's easy to just keep your toes down and lift your heel (be sure your vertical lever hangs very low. Maybe 1 inch or so from your leg).

On the other hand, if you don't have any pedals down, you have two choices: either lift your leg, or pull your whole foot away from the pedals, and plant your toe on the floor. Obviously, you can only get away with that if the music is such that you have time to pull that off.

As for the tune that you asked about in this thread, I lift my whole leg at that point in the song because there isn't time to do otherwise. And you were correct when you said to keep the bar at the 5th fret to play that lick.

[Andy Sandoval]

Tony, the phrase you suggested at the 7th fret is as you say the same notes and has some cool possibilities that I'm gonna explore as well but the LKV Bb actually sounds more like the phrase on the recording which is what I'm tryin to learn. Thanks again everybody for all the great tips and ideas. This Forum is the greatest!

[Paul Redmond]

WOW!!! I use that LKV to split back the C#'s to C and only for that purpose. And, yes, it does seem to work out easily as a LKV. I have installed other configurations on customers' guitars, but if you play a Uni or a 'short' Uni, the B to Bb change is used primarily to knock back the C# raise to a C. Just used it a bunch earlier tonight. When you're playing 'pedals-down', it's very valuable. If you use it as a change in and of itself (i.e. B to Bb), then I would suggest dropping one fret to the left and using the E to F raise and the G# to A raise instead. It's much easier and gets you to the same place anyhow. The late Bill Kerr showed me that when I first started playing steel and I thought it was a joke as I thought all changes should be made 'on position'. I was really, profoundly wrong, but a novice at the time. When you have your 'splits' down, it's easy to just raise your knee and tweak back the C#'s to a C. . .no need to raise your entire leg. Use the A/F-one-fret-to-the left change instead if that's what you're looking for. I use that 'change' in many old Ray Price songs as a V chord inversion. That change for years was also referred to as the 'Tom Brumley' change. . .truth is, he never used it (Together Again).
PRR

[Tony Prior]

One time I was sitting with John Fabian( Carter steels) and I was playing a phrase from Rose Colored Glasses that I picked up ( or was trying to ) from a Buddy recording.,

John looked over and said , thats pretty good, but why don't you play it like this..and he showed me a phrase using the E raise lever and then the Bb lever..which in the scheme of things was exactly what I was attempting to play..

then he said something like this, and it stuck.

We sit at our Steels with all sorts of possibilities in front of us but most of the time we just go back to the same old same old.

Example, strings 5 and 8...

Bb lever lowers 5, E lever's raise or lower 8.
A Ped raises 5...

Depending on which FRET position you choose the options are abundant...make that beyond abundant..

Look at the Steel, understand what the Peds and/or levers are doing....then execute in a few different ways..

I have always thought that if you look at levers as a CHORD only and not mentally identifying what it is doing , you are going to miss the show.

Redundancy, playing the same phrases at different locations maybe with different levers or fret positions offers a whole new approach as well as a different feel and attitude to our playing...

try this for fun


string grips 8,6,5 or 6,5 4, or 3,4 and 5

try it at the 5th fret...

one long sustain.. 4 steps...
press AB peds
press AB peds add Bb lever
release PEDS and LEVER
engage Bb lever

Just one of many ways to get this phrase, maybe not the easiest to execute but you should know it's there and it's use..on the fly....

Listen to the moving phrase, identify with where it comes from.

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

Andy, as far as whether you should lift your whole leg when engaging that vertical knee lever, it all depends.

The best scenario is when you're in a playing situation where you happen to have one or more pedals down. Then it's easy to just keep your toes down and lift your heel (be sure your vertical lever hangs very low. Maybe 1 inch or so from your leg).

This is why I feel it's best to have the F# to G change on the vertical.

As far as using the B to Bb lever as opposed to moving the bar back one fret and engaging the E-F raise and B pedal, The 2 moves may yield the same notes, but they SOUND different and there are times when you want to use one or the other. I recommend that even if you have a B-Bb lever, that you also learn the B pedal E raise position.

[Ariel Lobos]

Yes Tucker....was I am!!!!,and sincerly....y couldn't find the way to play those voices....I haven't the lever to replace this chord,y play with mocassins too but those kind of flexibility is too much for me yet...I don't give up,I just move the whole foot,I know is not the way,but I like yhit song at much...
I'm going to St louis to the convention,maybe Don curtis can teach me how to play it,along with other things. If somebody goes to St louis,we'll se there!

[Andy Sandoval]

This topic is gettin very informative, especially to me. Until I attempted to learn "She Thinks I Still Care" I had never even used my Bb LKV. Now I'm learnin to use it, and other cool lever/pedal moves as well.

[Tamara James]

I have read through this whole thread. Thankfully, I don't have a LKL to worry about yet. I do have a nice set of shoes called "kung-fu" shoes. Nice flexable sole, but actually looks like a shoe. ($9 from the martial arts store.) If this thread doesn't make a new player nervous, they will be all right. All the possibilities are sorta over-whelming for a beginner. I really have to get me one of those books. I think this thread was started as a Winnie Winston book question.

[Mike Shefrin]

On my Carter the Bb lever is the LKV. When I operated this lever my foot is completey off the ground in order to get to the 3rd fret and do an A pedal with the E raise. Should I try keepin my foot on the ground when usin the LKV?

Andy, I had the same problem with my B-Bb vertical knee lever but I was able to adjust it with an Allen wrench and lower it so that I would not have to raise my foot so much. One of the really nice things about the vertical lever is being able to use it simultaneously with the A (or first) pedal.

[Paul Redmond]

This is exactly why I have my so-called 'E changes' on the right knee instead of the left. It's made life a lot more bearable over the years!!!
PRR

[Paul Redmond]

Re: my prior post, I learned this from the great, late Zane Beck FWIW.
PRR

[Brad Malone]

Hey Andy, A similar chord change can be gotten at fret #12 on strings 6, 7, and 10 with pedals 1 & 2 depressed for notes A, F#, & C# then while still holding pedals 1 & 2 down, engage the Eb KL to get notes A, (Eb on string eight) and C#..difference is, your A is on the top instead of the bottom of the chord..your going from a F#minor to an A with a b5 or a B9th with the root and 5th missing..take your pick.