The Steel Guitar Forum

Doug Beaumier wrote:That's true b0b, and that's a good method if you know how to read music, and you know the notes on your instrument.

And it would seem natural to assume that even pedal-steel players know where the notes are on their instruments

People have been writing down music for centuries. No one method is best. All have advantages and disadvantages. Some folks prefer one over the other.

ANY form of written music CAN be a crutch. We all know classical players who can't improvise their way out of a wet paper bag. I've played 'Whorehouse' with fiddle players and violin players and it's interesting to hear the difference because that show includes parts that are ad lib and parts that are written out note for note.

Many students of steel guitar CAN'T LEARN WITHOUT TAB. This tells me that they aren't learning the MUSIC they are learning the INSTRUMENT.

An important factor is LEARNING HOW MUSIC WORKS. In order for a musician's memory to work best, a framework that everything (notes, scales, chords) fits into allows the student to learn faster, retain the knowledge, and use it in 'real time' on the bandstand. Everyone learns differently.

I use tab to document something I have transcribed or found on my own. I agree with Mike S that BOTH TAB AND STANDARD NOTATION are better than either alone.

Larry Bell wrote:No one method is best.

I don't really agree with that statement. It's too diplomatic

I think it's fair to say that standard music notation is the best way of writing down music. So far. And yes, it has its disadvantages too and for some certain things tab is better. And for me it's easier to read rhythms the way it's notated in classical indian music.

But with all that said I still say that standard notation is superior. In general and for all instruments. It shows the music, not how to play it on any particular instrument, not even keyboard.

Then, for you, it IS superior
Don't assume the same is true for others.
I still think BOTH tab and std notation is best FOR MY PURPOSES. Your mileage may vary.

Larry Bell wrote:Then, for you, it IS superior
Don't assume the same is true for others.

You know, it almost borders on arrogance. I mean, people have only developed the standard notation system for a bunch of centuries... all these people did all this work... for us!

It is a system that is near perfect. It replaced tab. For all instruments. Tabs are still used to show how something is played but as far as being a system to write out music there is none that is better on the planet and that's not a personal opinion.

Terje, the arrogance is that yours is the personal opinion of someone who doesn't play an instrument for which standard notation is inadequate. It has never completely replaced TAB for multiple stringed instruments, and likely never will. What people developed centuries ago for instruments with one-to-one correspondence between notation and the instrument can be and is inadequate and incomplete for newer instruments such as the pedal steel which have one-to-multiple correspondence between standard notation and the instrument. For you to claim standard notation is universally adequate but to be ignorant of and ignore instruments for which it clearly is not according to the players of those instruments is...well, you pick the word.

Another way to look at it is that standard notation is a one-dimensional linear system for one-dimensional linear instruments. The pedal steel is a new type of instrument that is two-dimensional, and needs two-dimensional supplementation of the old one-dimensional system. It's like the difference between two-dimensional tick-tack-toe and three-dimensional tick-tack-toe. You can't write out the three-dimensional game with the standard two-dimensional diagram. You have to add something else to describe the new dimension.

I created a font last year for doing pedal steel tab. It looks like normal pedal steel tab but along the bottom, I put standard notes to show duration and syncopation. Turned out pretty nice if I do say so myself.

TableEdit can be programmed to print out standard notation along with TAB that you enter. You set it up so that it "knows" the note your TAB indicates by the fret, string and pedal/lever combination. You then have to assign a time value to the note, and I assume phrasing marks, rests and other standard notation items can be specified. This is a fantastic opportunity the computer gives us. I've got TableEdit, but haven't gotten around to trying it. If I ever write out some TAB with it, I will definitely use this feature. I definitely prefer to see standard notation with TAB. But standard notation alone would be useless for probably over 90% of people who play the instrument. And I don't think we are alone in the music world. I wonder if standard notation would be adequate for say Indian sitar players or that Japanese instrument with multiple strings (name escapes me)?

Most pedal steel teachers/players agree that a combination of TABLATURE AND NOTES is best way to read, write, and teach PSG. Notes alone will not complete the picture. Tab alone will not complete the picture.

Everything said here is interesting and has merit. However, i think the best way to play steel is by ear. I just wish I could. Why do I say this? As pointed out there are just too many changes if you will to memorize all th possible combinations. I do wonder if the greats like Seymour, Helms, Emmons, and the others play by ear or music or a combination. I know that in a session they have charts, but do they ever just react. I mean get into the music and just play their heart out in a session or do as they are told. May not be the right thread.

Robert, it depends. My impression is that the vast majority of popular music (rock, country, bluegrass, blues, R&B, jazz [except for big band], etc.) is played by ear. There may be a chart with lyrics and chords, but not standard notation. If all you know is standard notation, you wont be able to play most gigs and studio sessions, because there is none. But if you play classical music, movie scores, or Broadway musicals, it's the opposite - most of it requires standard notation. When strings are used in popular music, it can be a mixed bag. You might have guitars, bass, drums and a vocalist going by ear and a lyric/chord chart, alongside strings and horns reading standard notation. It's all music.

For someone like me who's been playing trumpet for 34 years, tab was very strange to me at first. With tab-only, there's no way to really sight read a piece that you're unfamiliar with, without metering, rests etc. indicated. To me, tab is useful only to indicate playing positions of tunes that you're already familiar with or have some sort of audio reference to coincide. I prefer to actually see the notation along with the tab. This helps me learn where the actual NOTES are on the neck as opposed to just playing by position. (Although I have to admit that alot of my playing is done by postion!) Knowing where the actual notes lay on the neck helps me when playing off-the-cuff and improvising.

People who take the time to learn how to read music and theory also take the time to know how to apply it to their instrument. So to these people you can write it in notation, tab or on the out house wall and they won't care and if they have a good ear as well as music knowledge and a good memory they don't need it written anyway anywhere nohow.

Hello Terje, One of my freinds is looking for a used PSG for me, so my MSA Vintage XL SD-10 3+4 (it is the most recorded PSG in Sweden) is on sale, it mayne someting for you to start to understand the world of PSG. And Doug Beaumer´s 60 Popular Melodies is so good how to understand how to play PSG. As I understand you are playing a 3stringed instrument, it must be a balalajka a russian instrument?? You are so wrong with this subject!!

Bosse in Äppelbo, Sweden

Actually, the best way to learn is to transcribe it by ear

I remember a few years back when Guitar World magazine changed their tablature format from tab with standard notation to tab with rhythm slashes. People raised all kinds of cain, saying that they had "dumbed down" the music or whatever...I guarantee you that the Korn song or whatever they were putting in the magazine wasn't affected by the lack of standard notation...

My teachers at school here have been kind enough to let me play steel in most of my classes (as opposed to regular gee-tar...im a performance major). I have kind of had to learn how to read for steel under fire, since the stuff I have to read is out of things like the Charlie Parker Omnibook. If there was a tab, i'd totally read off of it, but there's no steel tab for the omnibook as far as i know lol...I don't really see any qualitative advantage or disadvantage. It's true that being a great sight-reader will earn you college scholarships, get you symphony orchestra gigs, and help you nail those radio jingles, but in my opinion, for the guy who just plays steel simply for the pure joy of it, which is why we all picked it up, tablature fits the bill just fine.

Terje (and all of us) should read carefully what John has written. Any performance major at a reputable music school who is able to use the pedal steel in classes is taking the instrument to a new level of legitimacy that most other players can barely imagine.

Any notation system is only as good as its usefulness to the musician.

I've slogged my way through a few of those Omnibook transcriptions myself. I was not able to scribble enough on the score -- fret, pedal/lever, string, etc. and still have it be readable enough to even pretend to sight read it -- even slowly. Notation is only a tool -- sometimes a good mechanic has to make his own tools.

Ear training is key. If you can't hear it you can't play it.

as a new comer to pedal steel (less than 1 year)i have a lot to learn,i am learning through video and cd courses br the best,Dick Meiss ,Bruce Bouton,Doug Jerningan,Jim Loessberg,Dewitt Scott,Al Briscoe,and my fovorite video instructor is the late Jeff Newman.from what i have learned so far is that tab is important,(at this piont i cant play without tab)however from the up from the top videos by Jeff Newman it seems that he stresses more on scale tones and pockets than tabbed music.Again i am a newcomer but am finally getting the picture Jeff is spelling out by not needing tabs.

Larry Bell wrote:I've slogged my way through a few of those Omnibook transcriptions myself. I was not able to scribble enough on the score -- fret, pedal/lever, string, etc. and still have it be readable enough to even pretend to sight read it -- even slowly.

Once you know where the notes are on your guitar, only the fret number is necessary.

terje....just curious...did beethoven use musical notation ...or tab?

Just a guestion not to argue, what method did the first PSG players use to make us all want to play this instrument so badly?

Curtis Alford wrote:Just a guestion not to argue, what method did the first PSG players use to make us all want to play this instrument so badly?

They used their ears.

b0b; I supose that brings us back to if you can't hear it you can't play it, What do you think?

I don't think so. I've learned music from written notes I hadn't heard until I played it.

I have the greatest respect for readers, both note and tab. I also have the highest admireation for blind musicians some of which we all know of.
Then I wonder which are the best musicans. The blind must hear the sound, the deaf must feel the vibrations,readers by and large are reproducing some one else's tabs, the composer is the rightous source for the interptation of the song.
I feel any method a person uses that allows them to play at a pro level is fine.
I respect all musicians that play well no matter what way they acheived their skill.
A good day to all.