The Steel Guitar Forum

Ben - I've always considered folk music as predominantly acoustic and usually with limited percussion. I tend to like folk music played in an expanded context...bass, drums, piano, steel, maybe some limited electric guitar. But I do think there's a lot of overlapping between folk and country. Sometimes the lyrical themes are really different. I was recently listening to Paycheck's "Drunk on Arrival". Man, you've got to love it!

What's your thoughts on folk and country?

I dont really know, but I think you had some really good insights there with the limited percussion and the difference in lyrical content. I would agree with your assesment of those differences between folk and country. these genre things are hard to pin down.
I dont know what to call what I do, as there is definetly drums, alot of acoustic instrumentaion, with the occasional blaring distorted electric guitar solo, and the lyrics arent decidely "country" in nature. I guess I fall into the alt-country thing more than any other description?

One of America's finest songwriters, Eric Andersen, has used a fair amount of steel on his recordings.

He was one of the guys playing and singing folk music in New York in the 60's with Dylan, Dave Van Ronk, Phil Ochs, and all the others.

Several years later he put out a very country-flavored album, to which Weldon Myrick contributed some great steel work.

Back to Henry Nagle for a sec: Henry, you sold the Emmons? After sending it back east for the complete overhaul? Wow - I'm in shock!

Mark,The "Thirsty Boots"Guy?

That'd be the guy.

The current (and possibly final) issue of "FOLKWORKS," the L.A. acoustic music community's semi-monthly magazine has a full page article on the pedal steel guitar, complete with an explanation of how to play ice cream changes without moving the bar by using the A and B pedals and the E-Eb knee lever.

The author refers to the Carter web sight and John Fabian's introductory video.

I hope the article will inspire some of the magazine's readership, who are mostly singers and songwriters, to either take up the steel, or hire steel players to accompany them.

I like to play Folk Music from time to
time. The undernoted clip features
some lap steel and pedal on an
Ian Tyson song and then Neil Young.
http://freefilehosting.net/download/MjE3MTc0

I play with more singer/songwriters and folk artists than country bands...hint.

Jay,
It's on the Passin' Thru album.Before Joe Walsh joined them.I have it on vinyl.Good music even without Walsh.Lonnie

How about Ritchie Havens's version of "Here Comes the Sun"?

Very tasteful and discreet steel in the BG.

Don't forget Joan Baez...

http://folkworks.org/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=60

The Pedal Steel Guitar By Roger Goodman

I can usually sit down with an unfamiliar musical instrument and quickly figure out enough about it to play some tunes. An exception to that happened on the one-and-only time I had access to a pedal steel guitar. For me, it was far from obvious how it worked or what nefarious devices were hidden inside. My frustration was amplified because of my fascination with the sound of this instrument since I first heard it. In the early days of television in Los Angeles there were two popular country and western band shows featuring the steel guitar: the Spade Cooley Show that ended when he went to prison for killing his wife and the Doy O'Dell show (not to be confused with the Dell O'Dell TV show of the same era, hosted by a popular Los Angeles lady magician). One of those two shows always featured a song played on the "Talking Steel Guitar."

Why this fascination with the sound of the pedal steel? In part it may be due to the intricate sequential structure that I can only compare to the vocal harmonies as heard in bluegrass-gospel and barber-shop-quartet. The pedal steel lends itself to chord progressions where only one note at a time might change until the sound finally comes to rest on the next chord. What could be more pleasant in music then to have such excruciating anticipation sweetly followed by a comforting resolution? That very stress and release may, in fact, be the essence of music itself. But then I digress.

The pedal steel is the ultimate evolution of the slide guitar. It began with the use of a knife blade or some other metallic object (known as the "steel") to slide notes up and down on the guitar. This can be heard in some old-timey country songs and in Delta and bottleneck blues. Then came the Hawaiian slack key guitar, the lap-steel guitar and the resophonic guitars from the Dobro & National guitar companies. Steel players tried to get around the limitations of the straight-bar steel by slanting the bar in various ways. Another technique was to actually bend a string behind the steel bar to raise and then lower a single note. Finally the lap-steel was set up on four legs and pedals were added followed by knee levers and, thus, the modern steel guitar was born. It continues to evolve.

As I tried to learn what I could about the pedal steel guitar my confusion only grew. Then I found a free 20-minute streaming video on the web that finally clicked for me (see the ON THE WEB section below). Here is what I learned from that video and my other research combined with some chord theory previously covered in this column (also ON THE WEB below).

The first challenge surfaces when the purchase of a pedal steel guitar is considered. You are immediately faced with an overwhelming number of options and decisions: do you want 8-strings, 10-strings, 12-strings or14-strings? Do you prefer single or double fret boards or necks? How many pedals (you can have up to eight of them) and knee levers (up to five) would you like? There are, of course, reasons why you might decide on more or less of these features. For example, the reason you might want more than one neck on an instrument is because there are more than one "standard" ways to tune the instrument. The three most common tunings are the E9-Nashville tuning, the C6-Texas tuning and the E9/B6-Universal tuning. For the purpose of clarity (and sanity) in this article, the discussion will be limited to a 10-string model using the E9th tuning with three pedals and four knee levers as in Figure 4.

An E major chord is made up of E's, G#'s and B's that are the 1's, 3's and 5's in that key. As shown in Figure 3, only some of the open strings (10, 8, 6, 5, 4 & 3) should be played to get an E chord. Notice that the other strings that don't belong have been grayed-out. This allows several E triad inversions to be played by using the following string groupings: 3-4-5, 4-5-6, 5-6-8 and 6-8-10. If strings 7 & 2 (the 9th's) are added along with string-9 (7b), you get an E9th chord. Thus this tuning takes its name from the E9th chord, which uses all but one of the open strings. If instead you add string-2 to the E major chord you get an E major 7th (EM7). Or, you can get an E dominant 7th (E7) if you add the string-9 instead.

Now comes the amazing part-the pedals and the knee levers. Look at Figure 4. You can see the three pedals and the four knee levers. Each knee is flanked by two levers that can change the open pitch of certain strings when you move your knee to the left or right. At the same time your left foot is available to work the pedals that affect other strings in a similar fashion. By combining the pedals and the levers you can actually play the instrument without even using the steel!

Here's how it works. You can use the left foot to depress Pedal-1 and Pedal-2 both at the same time. Figure 2 shows that Pedal-1 changes the note B to C# and Pedal-2 changes the note G# to A. While using only the strings that are not grayed-out, you have just changed the E (I chord) to an A (IV chord). Relaxing the pedals resolves back to the I-chord. To get the V7 chord (B-D#-F#-A) you combine Pedal-2 (G# to A) with the left knee moving to the right or inside (E to D#). The relative minor for E is C#m (C#-E-G#). Pressing Pedal-1 alone changes the note B to C#, supplying the missing note needed for the C#m chord.

So, for instance, a typical chord sequence of I-vi-IV-V7 (E-C#m-A-B7) would start with open strings for the I-chord, then use Pedal-1 for the vi-chord, add Pedal-2 for the IV chord and lastly move the Left Knee to the right for the V7 chord. All of this is done without using the bar. The video (ON THE WEB below) demonstrates this more clearly. You could place the bar anywhere to be in a different key and use the pedals and levers as above to get the I-vi-IV-V7 progression in the new key.

Now look at Figure 1 to see the other chords in the key of E. Add any of the missing notes by using the pedals and levers as indicated in Figure 2. This is just about as close to real magic as it gets! One other chord change that sounds especially nice on a pedal steel is the E suspended 4th chord resolving to an E major chord. The suspended 4th chord is just a major chord with the 3rd raised one half step to 4 by pressing Pedal-2 (G# to A).

I still don't have a pedal steel (they are kind of expensive) but the next time I get my hands on one, I will know what to do. Until then I hope you will stay tuned.

BEN JONES, Question, ?

what would you say distinguishes "folk" from "country" anyway?

I had this same question bugging me,
as I read this thread.
can someone define this, without the Accoustic instruments ?

H M

Mike Perlowin wrote:An E major chord is made up of E's, G#'s and B's that are the 1's, 3's and 5's in that key. As shown in Figure 3, only some of the open strings (10, 8, 6, 5, 4 & 3) should be played to get an E chord. Notice that the other strings that don't belong have been grayed-out. This allows several E triad inversions to be played by using the following string groupings: 3-4-5, 4-5-6, 5-6-8 and 6-8-10. If strings 7 & 2 (the 9th's) are added along with string-9 (7b), you get an E9th chord... [etc.]

Here's how it works. You can use the left foot to depress Pedal-1 and Pedal-2 both at the same time. Figure 2 shows that Pedal-1 changes the note B to C# and Pedal-2 changes the note G# to A. While using only the strings that are not grayed-out, you have just changed the E (I chord) to an A (IV chord). Relaxing the pedals resolves back to the I-chord. To get the V7 chord (B-D#-F#-A) you combine Pedal-2 (G# to A) with the left knee moving to the right or inside (E to D#). The relative minor for E is C#m ... [etc., etc.]

That would hopefully be enough to discourage the reader from taking up pedal steel, in favor of employing a local picker to do the job.

Charlie McDonald wrote:
That would hopefully be enough to discourage the reader from taking up pedal steel, in favor of employing a local picker to do the job.

I'm sure that's EXACTLY what the effect of the article will be. The author is described at the end of the article as a man who, when asked what time it is, will tell you how a clock works.

In the small world department, he and I went to college together 40 years ago, and haven't seen each other since.

Herbie Meeks wrote:BEN JONES, Question, ?
what would you say distinguishes "folk" from "country" anyway?
I had this same question bugging me,
as I read this thread.
can someone define this, without the Accoustic instruments ?
H M

I've always thought that Country Music IS a branch of folk music. To me, folk music encompasses:
[1] The indigenous traditional music of any peoples.
[2] Traditional music from Europe, such as English, Irish, Scottish, which was transported to New World to become Old-Time Country Music.
[3] Blues.
[4] Hymns and Gospel.

Each of these has developed a popular, commercial version, which has been aided by the introduction of modern instruments.

So
Old-Time Country > Country and Western
Blues > Rhythm & Blues
English and Irish Country Dance Music > Bluegrass
Gospel > Jazz

Swing, Western Swing, Cajun, Rock & Roll, are all derivatives of folk music.

The old Classical musicians used to define folk music as any music which is spontaneously generated by the people and musicians which is not written down. What set classical music apart was that it was written and the sheet music strictly adhered to, without improvisation; everything else being folk music.

Prior to the classical era there was no distinction between folk, popular or classical music. The distinction was more between courtly and secular music, everything else being regarded as the sort of thing lowly peasants got up to in the local pub or barn dance.

I regard myself as a folk musician, and I play "folk", blues and country, rockabilly, as it takes me. Once you start categorising music you put restrictions on it and lose spontaneity.

This has to be one of my most loved threads so far....

The "genre" discussion is something that we, as musicians, have to deal with every day. I play with a local singer songwriter, who does from time to time play folky music--in fact he just played at Kerrville in the new folk category--but when asked by a local drummer what sort of music he plays, I listed a whole bunch of stuff--much like Alan does, folk, blues, country, rock, R&B, soul, funk. His reply was, "oh, like Delbert McClinton". And no offense to his fans, but that's not our bag at all. Most every folkster I know uses a hash mark for their genres...makes it easier.

I was under the impression that "folk" music came from "plain folks", thus its "everyman/woman" appeal, and lack of popularity (as in pop music)--again like Alan said.

I wish I had read that article earlier--particularly for this: "What could be more pleasant in music then to have such excruciating anticipation sweetly followed by a comforting resolution? That very stress and release may, in fact, be the essence of music itself." HOLY. I think he just said that pedal steel is the essence of music, didn't he??

ALAN BROOKS, AND AARON HARMS

I have to agree with both you boys, I think you are historicaly correct. and well defined.
I always shyed away from the genre arguments

You described my attitude from , A, to, Z, seems working musicians get caught up in these arguments, along with many fans, Thanks,

HM

According to All Music Guide, I'm a 'folk artist', because of the folk singer songwriter artists that I record with. This genre of music is my recording mainstay.

The all mother of American Folk music: "Jean Ritchie" used pedal steel on her" none but one" album played by Eric Weissberg.
Phil Ochs had "Gene Parsons" playing steel on his "Greatest hits" album,Joan Baez's sister Mimi Farina used Sneaky Pete on her "take heart" album and listen to "The Blue Velvet band"and "Jonathan Edwards" with Bill Keith playing excellent steel.
Emmylou Harris' first folk album"Gliding Bird" has steel on "I saw the light".

Stephen Gambrell wrote:I thought that was Paul Franklin on the Brewer and Shipley stuff???

It may have been later on, Jerry played steel on "Oh Mommy, I aint no Commie" from "Tarkio"- the album with One Toke Over the Line.

I make most of my living recording and and playing for folk, singer/songwriter type artists. They look at me like a portable string quartet.

Olaf van Roggen wrote:"Jean Ritchie" used pedal steel on her" None But One" album played by Eric Weissberg.

I've always been a great fan of Jean Ritchie and we've corresponded over the internet about the design of mountain dulcimers, in which we have a mutual interest.
I'll have to look for that album.

That's good to hear Alan,I have known Jean Ritchie for years,first I bought her records and later we also corresponded through the internet.
Isn't that great,she's 85 and sends emails,the last one was about two weeks ago.
She and her music had great influence throughout the years,and she knows a lot about dulcimers.

Olaf van Roggen wrote:That's good to hear Alan,I have known Jean Ritchie for years,first I bought her records and later we also corresponded through the internet.
Isn't that great,she's 85 and sends emails,the last one was about two weeks ago.
She and her music had great influence throughout the years,and she knows a lot about dulcimers.

Yes, and she still tours !