The Steel Guitar Forum

I'm right there with Drew Howard. As a working player in a popular (read: young and sexy, except for me, of course ) local country band I sometimes have to explain to people that the only time I listen to modern country is when I need to learn a song. So even though I play it, I'm not up to date with the New Country star of the day.

I'm happy to fire this one up. The old boys and girls that made the original "country" music were a hard lot, and they learned their craft in the honkytonks of this great country.

Pickers. Listen to Buddy Emmons play bhind George Jones and you will hear some really hip licks and moves. The old stuff had grit and the right touch. No one since has written a better song that Merle Haggard, and there isn't a better road band on the streets these days than the original Strangers.

The new stuff. Phoney, fake macho stupid clothes, weenie songs and the worst productions values in the music industry. No doubt the pickers can still pick, but the music has an ugly sound to it, over-processed and heavy on the effects. To me, it is complete crap. Sorry, that's the way I feel.

No one played the blues better than Muddy Water's band. No one played R&R better than Chuck, Little Richard, Jerry Lee or Bo.

No one played Rock better than Tom Petty, The Cars or fil-in-the-blank. the Beatles own Pop.

No one played R&B better than the guys at Stax-Volt or Hi Records. This isn't an old guy's rant, it is just the plain truth. And if you cannot hear why the old country of three chords and the truth, sung by a guy or gal trying to stay away from a day-job life in small-town USA isn't a whole other and better ballgame than some corporate weenie in a black hat and ostrich-skin boots, well yer a lucky guy. You live in the golden age of mediocrity, and you like it.

Babe Ruth vs. Barry Bonds, Ali vs. Tyson, blonde-haired hippe chicks vs. Paris Hilton... ya had to have been there... -LLL- YMMV

You can count on this thread to pop up every week
under a different heading. That's not particularly
a complaint, simply an observation. If you love the
hard core traditional sound as I do, then support it!
Buy the CD's of Dale Watson, Justin Trevino, Chris Malpass, etc. and go to their shows when they come
around. Gene Watson is still out there and so is
Ray Price and Asleep at the Wheel. I said in another
post last week, excellence can be found. Seek it out!

We have so-called oldies stations that play the same R & R-era tunes and are and have been very successful at doing so. 'Fessor John Hook from NC has a great R & B show called 'The Saturday Night Fish Fry' on which he drags old black, blues and beach music out of the archives each week from DC to the Keys. We have stations that play big band stuff and music from the 40's thru the 70's such as CHWO 740AM out of Toronto that reaches half us 'down in the states'. Why can't Wall Street wake up to the fact that there are millions of people "who want to hear country and can't" (as Justin put it) out here in America?? I play gigs here in Bureau and surrounding counties in IL and without fail, at least one person will approach me after a gig and tell me that they'd like to be able to get that good old country stuff on their radios at home, but can't!! No one plays it!! I'd bet that if a good traditional country station got situated here in my home county, it would flat out kill all the competition. And I'd play for free at the funerals!!
Blues is blues, big band is big band, rock is rock, bluegrass is bluegrass. And so on. Yet these pirates force their junk on us and choose to call it country. Why don't they call it what it really is-(expletive deleted)?
PRR

Clyde - If traditional country music is left up to the likes of Chris Malpass (and his family) and Russ Varnell, we're in pretty good shape. These 'kids' weren't even born or thought of when the music they play was in vogue. They are very talented and won't be heard on mainstream country radio stations. America's loss. Chris is not a diamond in the rough. . .he's a diamond, period!! Russ was a personal friend of Buck and has one of the old red-white-blue acoustic guitars Buck and the Buckaroo's used on HeeHaw. I held that guitar in my hands several years ago in Wilson NC. My legs went numb!! 'Today's country' artists wouldn't understand any of this. But I do.
PRR

The are many real country acts who play on the Grand Old Opry. I listen to in every Saturday when I am headed towards my Broadway gig.
In fact I find that the GOO and WSM, in comparison to Modern County Radio format try to present newer artists who represent real tradition based country. I think that your opinion is actally quite uninformed and you should be pointing the finger at Modern Country Radio. GOO and WSM support artists like Elizabeth Cook, Sunny Sweeney, Josh Turner, Vince Gill, and Brad Paisley who are all rooted in tradional country. You won't find the modern arena rock disguised as country (Big and Rich, Chesney, Etc) on WSM and I haven't heard them on the Opry. Dale Watson comes to town to play the Opry.
You are picking the wrong target, flat-out.

Why can't Wall Street wake up to the fact that there are millions of people "who want to hear country and can't" (as Justin put it) out here in America??

I think an awful lot of what's happened has to do with a "What's new?" mentality among producers, radio programmers and, hence, younger artists. There used to be a fairly organic growth of creativity - Poco, NRPS, even the "outlaws" added rock elements to their country because they were both part of what they loved about music. (Roy Orbison amd Elvis were rock artists....)

Nowadays, "creativity" is far more calculated - "What do we have to do to stand out from the crowd, where can we steal an innovation?" Hence, the "creative" addition of rap music to country by Big & Rich and Cowboy Troy. Now, even the normally-respectable Trace Adkins finds himself in a comic actor role with the country/porn/rap "Honky Tonk Badonkadonk." And, the normally-adorable Carrie Underwood finds herself playing the black leather female-badass role perfected by Joan Jett and Pat Benatar, in the hard-rock "Before He Cheats." It's not that real country wouldn't sell - look at Martina McBride's "Timeless" CD - it's just that it doesn't have the contrasting shock value that seems important to producers, if not to audiences.

There's a completely analogous process in TV and Hollywood, where each new serial killer has to be more shocking and cannibalistic than the last, each new action/adventure film has to blow up even more cars and buildings than the previous one - plot? What plot? Fortunately, as the American CD-purchasing population ages, and as radio-driven CD sales continue to tank and the role of the internet in selling music continues to expand, I expect this may be somewhat of a self-correcting problem. However, you will be hearing new "roots" and Americana music - they're just not gonna play Merle and Buck and George, cause you already own all those albums.... Of course a young artist still can get a job singing the good old songs - at the local VFW, playing for the tip jar.

Dave Todd wrote:Well.......

I guess I'll go listen to Rascal Flatts again.......


Dave

Lol. Give this track a listen. http://www.travistoyfiles.com/travis/do ... kwards.mp3 Now, even though I put that track up to kind of "defend" Rascal Flatts, I actually agree with some of your opinions. My personal preference in country music is definitely the older stuff. By that, I mean all the stuff that was recorded before I was born. My dad was a steel player and I grew up surrounded by the sounds of Buddy Emmons, Lloyd Green, etc... That being said, if you want to be in demand as a player in the commercial music realm, you have to keep up with what's going on around you. Michael stated it very well in his post. Is the music I play every night my favorite thing to play? Honestly, no not really. Do I have the rare privilege of making a good living playing music? Yes. There is still a lot of traditional country music being played on the Grand Ole Opry. Here's a good example...I have only played it once with the Flatts. I have lost count of how many times I've played it with Steve Wariner and Patty Loveless. Maybe it's not getting as pop as some of you might think.

-t

David, I agree totally with your observations,
especially concerning Trace Atkins. Joe Diffie is
a perfect example of a great country singer whose
credibility was ruined with cute, nothing songs.
In the record company's attempt to keep upping the
ante with an even more cartoonish song than the last,
they robbed him of his chance to have a catalog like Haggard or Jones. Listen to his vocal performance
on "Ships That Don't Come In" to hear the potential.
Same thing with Trace Atkins, listen to "Don't Lie".

I don't bother with the AM/FM anymore. We've got XM Radio for $10/month, commercial free. I can listen in the car, home or online.

By CD's from those Texas singers, like Bobby mentioned. Pay attention to Amazon when they say "those who bought this also like that... ", sample some tracks and you might find some great new stuff.

Keep track of your favorite artists tour schedules online.

Basically, I'm saying screw the damned old Opry, err I mean the Grand Ole Opry and todays modern FM genre.

The Opry is going to do what it has always done , move forward. I remember the night Marty Robbins brought a trumpet player to the Opry, you would have thought the world was coming to an end. I personally don't care for 90% of todays country music but there are are few that still tickle my ear. I moved to Texas where there are lots of people recording traditional country music, I even get to play on a few of those records. And every weekend I play the music that made me start playing in the first place. There is no water in the desert, so don't live in the desert. There is no country on AM or FM so get XM. Having said all that, to each his own. The folks in Nashville are doing their brand of country because they love what they do. Remember, Jimmy Rogers may not have liked Ray Price anymore than I like Keith Urban.

T. C. Furlong wrote:

In the eighties, country was for the most part middle-of-the-road pop drivel.
TC

Oh, I don't know, the 80's were kinda good compared to nowadays seems to me. In the 80's we had Dwight, Randy, Rickys Van Shelton and Skaggs, Emmy had some good ones, Hwy 101 (great stuff!), Vince Gill and others that escape my limited memory at the moment....

I'd take that decade over most of the crap I hear on "country" radio these days...

Dennis

Bakersfield. REAL "home" of country music

I don't mean this in a mean spirited way but I am curious. I would like to see a poll of steel players that have turned down a chance to play on the Grand Ole Opry in say the last 10 years. I have several friends to varying degrees that I have played with that now perform on the Opry, namely Carrie Underwood, Jenee Keener, Joe Nichols, Tim Crouch and Dennis Crouch and if one of them called me and could arrange for me to play on it, I think I would probably do it in a heartbeat. What say the rest of you? I think Tommy has the most prestigous steel playing job in the world and most deservedly so. I believe that the Grand Ole Opry is setup to appeal to the masses and we don't get it all in an hour TV portion. I have only been to the Opry twice and both times there were some acts that I didn't care too much for but also there was lots of good music that I did like. Two questions: (1) Who has turned down the opportunity and (2) who would if given the chance.
Jerry

Jerry, I think your answer will be zero, because that's not how it works. The artist is told by Opry management if they can bring band members or not. If not, they have to use the staff band guys. The more "popular weight" the artist has at the moment, the more he/she can insist on bringing band members, and getting it ok'd.

BTW, Opry staff get paid half as much as band members per show; AFM regs. That's why management prefers it if you don't bring band guys.

Travis Toy wrote: Now, even though I put that track up to kind of "defend" Rascal Flatts, I actually agree with some of your opinions. My personal preference in country music is definitely the older stuff.

Travis,

Please no offense please. I'm not a player and want to get started learning soon. What I was trying to put across was that I get pummeled by the stuff when ever I tune into the FM dial. Which also means your gettin paid . I'm sure you are a fine, fine player and deserve every penny you make. I grew up with rock and roll through the 60's and 70'. Things just changed for me. I listen to Steel Radio every chance I can and like others have said, "Thank god for XM Radio. I prefer the rougher stuff on XCounty. Just more to my liking.

Apologies.... It came from the statement that my girlfriend made to the fact that when we got on the scooter for a night out, you guys were playin on the FM and at least 4 more times through the evening and then when we got in the truck the next day, sure nuff......

You know the deal......

I need XM on the scooter....

Dave

Gee, I guess we here in the Fort Worth, TX area are luckier than we thought. KTFW 92.1 FM plays traditional country 24/7. I haven't touched the dial for years. Yesterday afternoon DJ Bob Bulinski (sp?) interviewed Buddy Emmons live on the telephone for about half an hour. Howzat for keeping the faith?

http://www.countrygoldradio.com/

Edited to say, the station manager, Mike Crow, has his email address on the linked page. I bet if he got a few hundred emails, he'd replay the interview. You can get the station via streaming audio. Disclaimer: no affiliation, just a satisfied listener. But I do patronize their sponsors every chance I get, because I want them to keep doin' what they're doin'!

Johnny Cox nailed it. you like GOO listen to it. you don't like it don't listen. Thommason also knows where he's coming from 92.1 is streaming audio. Just dial it in. We also have XM in our vehicles. It's on all the time. Cheap at 10 bucks a month. We support our local country music station here by buying from the advertisers and our town is small enough that we can do that. Plenty of country music in west texas and we intend to keep it that way. you can't beat the likes of Justin Trevino, Billy Mata, Bobby Flores, Jim Loessburg, Curtis Potter, the Watson boys, and our own Jody Nix. Want to make a difference? Buy their cd's and request their songs by dialing up a telephone once in a while.

Phred

Dennis Schell wrote:

Oh, I don't know, the 80's were kinda good compared to nowadays seems to me. In the 80's we had Dwight, Randy, Rickys Van Shelton and Skaggs, Emmy had some good ones, Hwy 101 (great stuff!), Vince Gill and others that escape my limited memory at the moment....

I'd take that decade over most of the crap I hear on "country" radio these days...

Dennis, I'm with you. I've posted similarly recently when someone made a similar comment about the Eighties. You mentioned a couple I missed--and I might add that George Jones and Merle Haggard were still played on mainstream country radio as current hits, not as "Golden Oldies", and they weren't young and pretty then, either!.

I posted this one another forum talking about "Real Country Music".

My grandmother was a BIG Jimmie Rodgers fan. Her older brother used to put him down saying things like "He's not country" he records with a "Hawaiian Band" or a "Dixie Land Band", that ain't country!

Then when my dads oldest brother started listening to western swing in the '40s, my grandfather got on him because "them fiddlers from Texas were playin' big band music from New York City", and that ain't country!

Then my dad was a big fan of Hank & Lefty in the early '50s, his uncle told him he shouldn't listen to that stuff because it had that damned electric guitar in it, that ain't country!

Then when I was a kid my first record was a Buck Owens album, my dad couldn't stand that loud guitar and all the damned drums on it, he would always tell me "that ain't country".


I'm thinkin you guys are right. We need to stop this cross-polination of country music, it's been going on for to long(at least 100 years now).

We should all get back to playing fretless banjos and out of tune fiddles on the back porch, just singin' about mules, shine, and killin' the girl next door, REAL COUNTRY MUSIC!!

i agree with bobby i like the stuff out of texas
better than about anything right now
and yes rascal flats do have some tunes that are
country....a lot of the nashville acts
i think would like to do more real country
but there labels just wont agree to it
im not saying all of todays music is not to my taste....what im trying to say is the Goo COULD BE
more country less trying to be hip

I'm a traditional country music lover. What the airway is playing today is an insult to country music and should be called something other than Country Music. I have a steel Guitar playing job each week in a traditional country band and 90% of the music requested is traditional country music. The airway should have a mixture of both types of music but seperate the name of the current country music from traditional country music, Shorty

I guess I wouldn't be too quick to say unkind things about the Grand Ol Opry or WSM radio for that matter. You can still hear the old artists that are still around on the Opry. Just not on the made for TV portion. Guys like Eddie Stubbs still play the old stuff. For me, the problem is with the local stations with the 20 something year old program directors, and DJs who play the same 10 new releases over, and over through out the day. I've gone to listening to talk radio when I'm out in the car. It's tough to be an older guy, when todays country music is produced to appeal to ladies in their twenties.

John

Like I said before and I'll say it again, the Grand Ole Opry isn't the be-all and end-all of country music. We shouldn't rely on it to deliver the music we want to hear. I like the old stuff just as much as anyone else here, but I believe that good country music can be found in other places besides the Grand Ole Opry.

It seems I've almost always kept separate what I love to listen to (and play) vs. what I play for money. "Honky Tonk Badonkadonk" is a perfect example: I thought it was a usual piece of Nashville crap, but it's actually fun to play on steel. If I just played what I like I'd have maybe 3 people follow me. And even my Mom would get tired of it eventually.